Author Topic: Help with ID / Origin (Read 2841 times)

Baker · « **on:** January 14, 2022, 05:26:31 PM »

Hello
This ole girl surfaced in Canada a couple of months back. She is wearing a Dimick St Louis Lock, but it appears that it may be a replacement lock. Does the hardware and style look familiar to anyone?
She has a 34" Octagon barrel that measures 1" across the flats and has a 38 cal bore.
Appreciate any input and help

Jtown · « **Reply #1 on:** January 15, 2022, 03:26:53 AM »

Interesting patchbox with no hinge showing. Could we get a picture of it open.
Walt

Baker · « **Reply #2 on:** January 15, 2022, 04:15:20 AM »

Picture added and thanks for the interest ☺

Paul

Bill Paton · « **Reply #3 on:** January 15, 2022, 09:03:57 AM »

Very interesting box. The finial and side plates are a one-piece unit. They and the lid look cast. Are they?

Bill Paton

rich pierce · « **Reply #4 on:** January 15, 2022, 03:19:12 PM »

That sort of hinge can be a Southern feature. Wallace Gusler wrote about it in Muzzle Blasts. But he was focusing on earlier rifles.

mr. no gold · « **Reply #5 on:** January 15, 2022, 07:58:03 PM »

Captured hinges are notably found on NC rifles particularly on those made in the Rowan School. They give clean a look to the box. They do stand out when you see them in other areas. Nice find there in Canada. It would be interesting if it should prove to be a Canadian made rifle. Thank you for letting us see it,
Dick

Baker · « **Reply #6 on:** January 15, 2022, 10:25:25 PM »

Hello and thank you for all the feedback. Unfortunately I cannot tell if the patchbox is cast or not. From what I can see of the back side of the door it is very smooth. As far as the origin goes I cannot find any markings on the barrel. Top or bottom and as mentioned the lock looks to have been a replacement. There is an interesting double struck X on the trigger guard for what it is worth ☺ Picture added

thanks again
Paul

JHeath · « **Reply #7 on:** January 16, 2022, 08:44:47 AM »

I don’t know much, but doesn’t it have a trade rifle look to it, like Leman or Deringer?

The patch box isn’t typical.

It doesn’t look like the Phila. or OH or NY halfstocks I’ve seen.

Mike Brooks · « **Reply #8 on:** January 16, 2022, 06:03:55 PM »

I associate boxes like that with the south.

Mtn Meek · « **Reply #9 on:** January 18, 2022, 09:34:51 AM »

I don't know about the rifle, but the patch box has some Philadelphia cousins.

Rifle with "J.J. HENRY" on lock.

Rifle with illegible markings, probably Philadelphia maker.

Swivel Breech rifle, unmarked probably Philadelphia maker. Same PB as above but with external hinge.

Baker · « **Reply #10 on:** January 18, 2022, 05:12:26 PM »

This is very interesting for me and thank you once again gentlemen ☺

Tanselman · « **Reply #11 on:** January 19, 2022, 12:20:09 AM »

The single trigger, small guard, somewhat heavy cheekpiece, and solid scalloped side leaves on box all suggest New York to me. I own one, and have seen several other, NY rifles with these "captured lid" patchboxes. Did it come out of eastern Canada, or western Canada?

Shelby Gallien

Baker · « **Reply #12 on:** January 19, 2022, 04:25:06 PM »

Morning
She was located 30 miles north of Lake Ontario not all that far from the Niagara Falls boarder bridge crossing into New York State.
Thank you for your input and would really like to see pictures of your rifle ☺

RAT · « **Reply #13 on:** January 23, 2022, 01:41:03 AM »

The finial on the patchbox is very similar to some used by Tryon of Philadelphia. Closer, in fact, than the photos Phil posted. They are shown in "The Encyclopedia of the Fur Trade, vol 1-Firearms of the Fur Trade" (see Museum of the Fur Trade). You can also check out the article "American Contracted Rifles of the Rocky Mountain Fur Trade" in volume 13 of the Rocky Mountain Fur Trade Journal (see Museum of the Mountain Man). It shows similar finials and side panels used by J. J. Henry.

However... all of these show conventional hinges... not captured lids with a hidden hinge and one-piece finial and side panels.

You say you can't tell if it's cast or formed. Take a look at the 2 hinge pieces on the underside of the lid. Are they one piece with the lid... or are they separate pieces that are attached? If they are one piece with the lid, I would guess it's a casting.

Baker · « **Reply #14 on:** January 23, 2022, 08:05:55 PM »

Hello Rat and thank you for the information.

The hinge is integral with the lid.

I will say it is 'Cast'

thanks again

Paul

Baker · « **Reply #15 on:** January 29, 2022, 09:10:59 PM »

I was really hoping someone would have confirmed that this ole girl was made for the 'Fur Trade' ☺

Thanks again for all the info supplied

Paul

D. Taylor Sapergia · « **Reply #16 on:** January 29, 2022, 11:19:13 PM »

There is a two volume set of books on Canadian Gunsmiths of the muzzleloading era, and it is true that Canada had a prolific gunmaking trade from coast to coast in this era right up to about the 20th century. When I was a kid in college, I happened to be in the University of Western Ontario, and in one of the halls there was a display of rifles from the shop of RW Soper of Canada West. It was a stand of about eight rifles, all half stocked, with walnut stocks and percussion locks, chequered wrists and in short, high end rifles. They resembled many of the rifles I've seen from the East Coast of the USA, but I didn't know enough at the time to examine them in detail. Too soon old and too late smart.
Whether or not your rifle is of Canadian manufacture, I cannot guess. During the period in which your rifle was in use, there was active movement across the 49th in both directions...could easily be canuck or 'mercan.

Baker · « **Reply #17 on:** February 05, 2022, 08:36:44 PM »

Appreciate you responding to my query and thank you for the input.

Paul

D. Taylor Sapergia · « **Reply #18 on:** February 05, 2022, 11:51:17 PM »

I don't think it is a Dimick rifle. That lock is a replacement, judging by the missing wood particularly just in front of the breech...the original lock had a concave curve in the corner where the new lock has a sharp 90 deg. corner.

Baker · « **Reply #19 on:** February 06, 2022, 01:28:02 AM »

I agree that the lock was likely changed. If you look closely the lock has an extra hole in it that doesn't match the rifle.

Paul
ps: I was excited the first time I saw the Dimick Lock ☺

News:

Author Topic: Help with ID / Origin (Read 2841 times)