Author Topic: Deer tallow lube  (Read 435 times)

Offline Scota4570

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Deer tallow lube
« on: January 15, 2022, 02:43:26 AM »
I tried some of my tallow as a patch lube.  I diluted the melted tallow about 50:50 with charcoal lighter.  I dunked the patches and blotted them of any excess liquid.  I let hem dry for a couple of days.  This produced a patch that was not super waxy or sticky but definitely had significant tallow on it. 

The shooting went very well.  I shot the smallest 50 yard ML group to date with the first rifle. 

I then switched rifles to a 45 cal, that was going just fine too.  I was loading several shots between wiping with no problems.  It is a Green mountain barrel with a .440 ball,0.018' patch and 60 gr of Swiss 3F. 

There was a range clear call and a 15 minuet wait.  I left the bore  3 shots dirty. 

Upon trying  to load after the cease fire the patched ball stuck fast in the bore at the short starter depth.  I only had a wood ramrod and could not budge it.  I was afraid I'd break the rod.  After working  on it for a while the patch tore and the ball went down.,  The patch came up with the rod.   

I am normally a wipe between shots guy.  It was about 60*F.  This is a totally new situation for me.  Does hard fat combine with fouling to make some sort of concretion at times?  Any ideas on what happened? 

Offline Daryl

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Re: Deer tallow lube
« Reply #1 on: January 15, 2022, 03:50:21 AM »
Don't know the answer to the question. I am wondering, though, if the B.Q. lighter fluid had something to do with the sticking in the bore?
That the patch became stuck to the point you pushed the ball through it, is very interesting and confusing too. The only time I've had this happen, was spit patch in -10F weather.
This was the winter of 1973.
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V

Offline Scota4570

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Re: Deer tallow lube
« Reply #2 on: January 15, 2022, 04:01:04 AM »
The lighter fluid is only to dilute the tallow.  It was fully evaporated.  It should not be a factor. 

I am in California, we have to get creative with solvents due to ridiculous laws.  Naptha would be my first choice. 

There is a similar procedure where you dilute Ballistol with water wet the patches, then let the water evaporate.  You then get a patch with minimal mineral oil on it.  I am doing something similar.  Goopie patches have not worked well for me. 

Offline Daryl

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Re: Deer tallow lube
« Reply #3 on: January 15, 2022, 04:39:54 AM »
Interesting. Is this for plinking, or hunting? If plinking, why not use a wet patch, or are they goopie?
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V

Offline Scota4570

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Re: Deer tallow lube
« Reply #4 on: January 15, 2022, 04:53:38 AM »
Just experimenting.  Hunting with MLs out here is a problem due to lead hysteria and fire dangers.  So, for target shooting. 

I like the idea of a patch with adequate but effective lube.  To much slick, like lanolin, does not seem to shoot as accurately,  I like the idea of a patch that does not attract dirt or make my fingers slimy. 

I normally use a damp patch.  I have had some issues with water contamination of the powder.  Those can be messy too. 

There is a "system" you can buy to make a Ballsistol dry lube patch.  I was experimenting along that line. 


Offline smylee grouch

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Re: Deer tallow lube
« Reply #5 on: January 15, 2022, 04:57:28 AM »
Interesting for sure as I was going to render some deer fat and Bear fat on Sunday and try the two mixed 50/50. I have shot a lot of both straight but never tried the two mixed IIRC.

Offline Scota4570

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Re: Deer tallow lube
« Reply #6 on: January 15, 2022, 05:25:44 AM »
I have some Jojoba oil coming in the mail.  I will try that.  I have read it is close to sperm oil. 

Offline walks with gun

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Re: Deer tallow lube
« Reply #7 on: January 15, 2022, 05:42:19 AM »
  Deer tallow patches seem to dislike any cool weather and after fighting with them stopped using them.  We found that patches using neatshoot oil. beeswax and deer tallow attracted dogs, if dogs were let loose before policing the range they would swallow every tallow patch they could find.   For the last several years I've been using pure olive oil and don't remember having one smolder or attracting dogs.  Should be safe enough for even California.

Offline Dphariss

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Re: Deer tallow lube
« Reply #8 on: January 15, 2022, 06:42:20 AM »
I tried some of my tallow as a patch lube.  I diluted the melted tallow about 50:50 with charcoal lighter.  I dunked the patches and blotted them of any excess liquid.  I let hem dry for a couple of days.  This produced a patch that was not super waxy or sticky but definitely had significant tallow on it. 

The shooting went very well.  I shot the smallest 50 yard ML group to date with the first rifle. 

I then switched rifles to a 45 cal, that was going just fine too.  I was loading several shots between wiping with no problems.  It is a Green mountain barrel with a .440 ball,0.018' patch and 60 gr of Swiss 3F. 

There was a range clear call and a 15 minuet wait.  I left the bore  3 shots dirty. 

Upon trying  to load after the cease fire the patched ball stuck fast in the bore at the short starter depth.  I only had a wood ramrod and could not budge it.  I was afraid I'd break the rod.  After working  on it for a while the patch tore and the ball went down.,  The patch came up with the rod.   

I am normally a wipe between shots guy.  It was about 60*F.  This is a totally new situation for me.  Does hard fat combine with fouling to make some sort of concretion at times?  Any ideas on what happened?

Fouling dried hard.  Not unusual at all.
I would also forget the lighter fluid. No telling what this does to the tallow. 60 degrees should not be an issue, you only need tallow on the side that contacts the bore. I usually just rub a patch on the tallow.  If you have a blow tube you can blow through the bore 3-4 breaths and it will help if the fouling gets dry.  The other thing is Neatsfoot Oil its good to pretty low temps. If you want to soak them will tallow heat it in an improvised double boiler. 
Let us rather no longer insult them with the supposition that they can ever reduce themselves to the necessity of making the experiment, by a blind and tame submission to the long train of insidious measures which must precede and produce it.  Jame Madison
 Its been happening for over 100 years.

Offline Daryl

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Re: Deer tallow lube
« Reply #9 on: January 15, 2022, 07:25:48 AM »
Just experimenting.  Hunting with MLs out here is a problem due to lead hysteria and fire dangers.  So, for target shooting. 

I like the idea of a patch with adequate but effective lube.  To much slick, like lanolin, does not seem to shoot as accurately,  I like the idea of a patch that does not attract dirt or make my fingers slimy. 

I normally use a damp patch.  I have had some issues with water contamination of the powder.  Those can be messy too. 

There is a "system" you can buy to make a Ballsistol dry lube patch.  I was experimenting along that line.

Slick lubes generally need more powder - at least that is what I found in my .36, .40 and .45 calibre rifles. 5gr. more in the .36 and 10gr. more in the .40 and .45.
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V

Offline Hungry Horse

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Re: Deer tallow lube
« Reply #10 on: January 15, 2022, 10:34:18 PM »
 Once again, you don’t have the foggiest notion what is in charcoal lighter, so don’t grease your patches with it. Venison tallow melted so you can dip your patches and let them dry. Often I only dip about half of each patch to minimize the amount of grease. I’m from California also, and it works just fine.

  Hungry Horse

Offline Scota4570

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Re: Deer tallow lube
« Reply #11 on: January 16, 2022, 02:47:33 AM »
Again the solvent is fully evaporated from the patches before they are shot.  The solvent is irrelevant.

The Dutch Shultz  system used water to dilute the soluble  oil.  After letting the water evaporate you had only oil.  The water is irrelevant for shooting purposes. 

What I did was the same thing but I used a solvent instead of water. 

Offline smylee grouch

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Re: Deer tallow lube
« Reply #12 on: January 16, 2022, 04:33:26 AM »
Would it be possible for some residue to remain after the solvent evaporated and causing the hard fouling to be worse than normal ? I might change my deer tallow/bear oil ratio to a lot less deer/more bear.

Offline Dphariss

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Re: Deer tallow lube
« Reply #13 on: January 16, 2022, 07:11:14 AM »
Again the solvent is fully evaporated from the patches before they are shot.  The solvent is irrelevant.

The Dutch Shultz  system used water to dilute the soluble  oil.  After letting the water evaporate you had only oil.  The water is irrelevant for shooting purposes. 

What I did was the same thing but I used a solvent instead of water.

WS oil is designed to mix with and work with water. When dealing things it’s best to know will happen if they are thinned especially when mixing petroleum with animal fats. If you want tallow soaked patches then just warm it. Use a coffee can with water and a jar or can in it with the tallow. A double boiler. Warm til it melts. But its a waste of tallow this the patch will soak up 2-3 times what is needed. I have several small shallow tins I pour melted tallow into. When solidified I can  rub a patch on the tallow and it will pick up all that is needed.you can hardly tell the greased side from the dry on the 100% linen patch. But one side is tacky to the touch. I live in Montana. In summer the humidity can be in the teens.  With a blow tube this much lube is all that is needed. People tend to over think all these things when is reality simple may well work just as well and often better. I find tallow to be an excellent lube. But in below freezing weather I use pure Neatsfoot Oil. Its possible to melt and stir together beeswax (clean pure beeswax) and Neatfoot Oil. It will make a good lube when mixed at the proper ratio. But Beeswax must be carefully heated and held a temp of a time, couple of hours to let any gunk or honey in the wax settle down. Then dip wax off the top of the melt and add it to the warmed oil in another double boiler. I find that making tallow is simpler. Above all never, ever use direct heat on Beeswax. And its not a stock finish either.




Let us rather no longer insult them with the supposition that they can ever reduce themselves to the necessity of making the experiment, by a blind and tame submission to the long train of insidious measures which must precede and produce it.  Jame Madison
 Its been happening for over 100 years.

Offline Daryl

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Re: Deer tallow lube
« Reply #14 on: January 16, 2022, 09:22:42 AM »
Hmmm - about finishes - maybe depends on how it's applied?
This one looks the same today as when finished & it's been hunting in the worse weather numerous times.
Beeswax finish.

Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V

Offline Dphariss

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Re: Deer tallow lube
« Reply #15 on: January 16, 2022, 05:45:20 PM »
Hmmm - about finishes - maybe depends on how it's applied?
This one looks the same today as when finished & it's been hunting in the worse weather numerous times.
Beeswax finish.


I get the “not good on wood” from a guy who over the years used it by the ton. Put a lot of study into it but not for stock finish. So I take his word. Where I live I suspect it would get tacky if I left it out in the sun in summer. 
Anyway there is something in Beeswax properties that my friend considers a deal killer for a stock finish. It will work but there is an issue of some sort. I will ask him the next time I call him.
Back when I was a lot younger I used, IIRC, boiled LS oil, paraffin and crayons for color on a couple of guns.  All melted together. Put on hot. But I know better now.  Found the formula in Muzzle Blasts circa 1966-68.
Nice Moose BTW. People have no idea how big the bones on these things are until they actually get into butchering one. Makes a nice Bull Elk look  wimpy.
Let us rather no longer insult them with the supposition that they can ever reduce themselves to the necessity of making the experiment, by a blind and tame submission to the long train of insidious measures which must precede and produce it.  Jame Madison
 Its been happening for over 100 years.

Offline Daryl

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Re: Deer tallow lube
« Reply #16 on: January 16, 2022, 09:23:25 PM »
Big moose, are quite large.  A 5 month old bull moose calf, has 2" diameter front leg bones up at the top, in the(our) bicep area.
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V

Offline pilot

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Re: Deer tallow lube
« Reply #17 on: January 17, 2022, 04:57:17 PM »
The charcoal lighter fluid available in stores here is kerosene.

Offline Dphariss

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Re: Deer tallow lube
« Reply #18 on: January 17, 2022, 06:07:49 PM »
Big moose, are quite large.  A 5 month old bull moose calf, has 2" diameter front leg bones up at the top, in the(our) bicep area.


This is off a decent bull killed on a small farm I used to own at Delta Jct, AK. Neighbor gave us a front shoulder. He was really too large to be a good eating bull. I think. I did post the photo of the guy and the antlers in the local gun shop in Big Timber, MT  with a note “killed on local residents property” in a couple of weeks someone had spoiled the fun by adding “In Alaska”. It would have been WAY up in the books for a Shiras Moose I suspect, if not a record.  Can’t find the photo right now.
Let us rather no longer insult them with the supposition that they can ever reduce themselves to the necessity of making the experiment, by a blind and tame submission to the long train of insidious measures which must precede and produce it.  Jame Madison
 Its been happening for over 100 years.

Offline Dphariss

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Re: Deer tallow lube
« Reply #19 on: January 17, 2022, 06:09:31 PM »
One other thing. If you are making tallow, use the kidney fat. It has a higher oil content, or so I am told.
Let us rather no longer insult them with the supposition that they can ever reduce themselves to the necessity of making the experiment, by a blind and tame submission to the long train of insidious measures which must precede and produce it.  Jame Madison
 Its been happening for over 100 years.

Offline Daryl

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Re: Deer tallow lube
« Reply #20 on: January 17, 2022, 10:30:30 PM »
HUGE bones, even on a little one like this:


Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V