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Author Topic: Question about early period correct build  (Read 4116 times)

Offline Medic980

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Question about early period correct build
« on: January 25, 2022, 05:41:37 PM »
I am wanting to build a longrifle with flintlock in .54 caliber with either 42" or 44" swamped barrel. The thing is I like the more ornate german jaeger style furniture, carvings, and game engravings found on german jeagers than the what appears to be more plain furniture found on longrifles in 1770's. Is what I would like to build even period correct for maybe a late transitional rifle, say 1750-60's? I know many germanic gunsmiths made their way to Pennsylvania and the southern colonies, could one of them have maybe made something like this?
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Offline rich pierce

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Re: Question about early period correct build
« Reply #1 on: January 25, 2022, 05:53:24 PM »
I have seen early rifles that recycled more ornate furniture. In one case a trigger bow was narrowed, removing some of the engraved portion of the bow. Looked very cool. The guy displaying it wasn’t saying if it was original or not. And he wasn’t someone I knew so didn’t put him in a headlock or give him a noogie. I’ll see if I can dig out the pictures.
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Offline Eric Kettenburg

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Re: Question about early period correct build
« Reply #2 on: January 25, 2022, 06:17:21 PM »
Look at the so-called "Rochester" rifle, or some look at it as the "Monmouth" rifle.  It was auctioned last autumn - maybe someone can post a link if they remember the auction house?  Otherwise when I get a chance I'll try to remember to post the auction photos.  It's largely a restocked German gun (or using some recycled and some imported parts),  generally accepted as having been made at Christian's Spring.  Either way it sure looks like an American stocking of German components.  Great rifle.
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Offline Frozen Run

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Re: Question about early period correct build
« Reply #3 on: January 25, 2022, 06:46:02 PM »
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Offline rich pierce

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Re: Question about early period correct build
« Reply #4 on: January 25, 2022, 07:00:24 PM »
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Offline Medic980

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Re: Question about early period correct build
« Reply #5 on: January 25, 2022, 07:09:21 PM »
I know the german jaegar rifles are of a shorter barrel usually less than 38" (yes I know germans also had long barrel muskets). So I guess you could say I looking to do more a full stock longrifle (42"-44" bbl) like the pennsylvania longrifle but a blend of a german style such as a little thicker stock and more pronounced, maybe stepped cheek piece. Adding in the fancier germanic furniture. I'm not sure about wood species for the stock but I'd use a chamber's early germanic lock, double set triggers, swamped bbl, and wooden patch box. The buttplate, side plate, rod thimble, thumb plate, and triggerguard will be more germanic style. In my head it seems plausible that the early gunsmiths would have started adopting the longer barrel (to make colonial buyers happy maybe?) and used imported german parts. Do this seem plausible?

Frozen Run: The furniture on that rifle is what I'm looking to do except with a one piece side plate. Just add a longer barrel and stock and it would be just about what I had in mind.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2022, 07:16:20 PM by Medic980 »
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Offline Medic980

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Re: Question about early period correct build
« Reply #6 on: January 25, 2022, 07:14:17 PM »
Quote from: rich pierce on January 25, 2022, 05:53:24 PM
I have seen early rifles that recycled more ornate furniture. In one case a trigger bow was narrowed, removing some of the engraved portion of the bow. Looked very cool. The guy displaying it wasn’t saying if it was original or not. And he wasn’t someone I knew so didn’t put him in a headlock or give him a noogie. I’ll see if I can dig out the pictures.

A headlock and noogie on a stranger...I think that would have gone as well as a wet f#rt in church haha.
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Offline martin9

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Re: Question about early period correct build
« Reply #7 on: January 25, 2022, 07:22:44 PM »
Sounds like you want a Jaeger with a longer barrel. I'd suggest getting a nice chunk of walnut and build a Jaeger with the barrel, hardware and carving you want. I've been looking into the same thing and longer barreled Jaeger rifles, not just muskets, were made. Ron Scott has a post here about it.
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Offline martin9

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Re: Question about early period correct build
« Reply #8 on: January 25, 2022, 07:31:47 PM »
"Most of the German rifles we see here are short because the short ones would fit nicely in a WWII duffle bag.  I have been to many museums in Germany, and you see guns of all different barrel lengths.  There, the short ones (under 28") are definitely in the minority.  It is not uncommon to see barrels 40+" long."

 My bad, this was the post I meant...this was by Jim Chambers
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Offline rich pierce

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Re: Question about early period correct build
« Reply #9 on: January 25, 2022, 07:35:55 PM »
From 2 different guns, old pix without much documentation but might give you ideas.















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Offline Medic980

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Re: Question about early period correct build
« Reply #10 on: January 25, 2022, 07:59:22 PM »
Quote from: martin9 on January 25, 2022, 07:31:47 PM
"Most of the German rifles we see here are short because the short ones would fit nicely in a WWII duffle bag.  I have been to many museums in Germany, and you see guns of all different barrel lengths.  There, the short ones (under 28") are definitely in the minority.  It is not uncommon to see barrels 40+" long."

Makes sense.

 My bad, this was the post I meant...this was by Jim Chambers
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Offline Medic980

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Re: Question about early period correct build
« Reply #11 on: January 25, 2022, 08:04:41 PM »
Quote from: rich pierce on January 25, 2022, 07:35:55 PM
From 2 different guns, old pix without much documentation but might give you ideas.















Martin9 I'm really loving the scenic engraving on the triggerguards and buttplates. I also like the finials which give it character rather than short squared off ends. I wonder if that side plate was added later because the engraving on it seems simple and floral whereas everything else is very detailed engraved.
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Offline martin9

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Re: Question about early period correct build
« Reply #12 on: January 25, 2022, 08:32:54 PM »
Those pics are from Rich Pierce. They are from the Contemporary Makers blog site it looks like.  You can search around there for inspiration too. Lots of contemporary and originals there.
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Offline martin9

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Re: Question about early period correct build
« Reply #13 on: January 25, 2022, 08:34:33 PM »
The gun in the first pic is from that site...I recognize the rock :). Not sure about the second gun.
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Offline rich pierce

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Re: Question about early period correct build
« Reply #14 on: January 25, 2022, 09:06:38 PM »
It was not uncommon to recycle parts from earlier guns; even guns quite earlier in style. They could be used as is or modified depending on how brave you are. The details of the guns above are less important than that they demonstrate colonial builds using recycled and fancy furniture.
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Offline Eric Kettenburg

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Re: Question about early period correct build
« Reply #15 on: February 09, 2022, 02:44:23 AM »















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Offline Craig Wilcox

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Re: Question about early period correct build
« Reply #16 on: February 09, 2022, 09:53:54 PM »
MBS has some Ron Scott moldings for sale.  Quite ornate, very German look to them.  May be what you are looking for.
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Offline Not English

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Re: Question about early period correct build
« Reply #17 on: February 11, 2022, 07:03:57 AM »
Medic, I built what I interpreted as a transitional longrifle. It has a lot of Christian Springs influence along with Germanic influences. There is a stepped wrist with with an open bow trigger guard and wood patchbox. The trigger is a Jaeger lever double set trigger. It has a 42" inch .54 caliber barrel along with a very Germanic style flintlock. The sights are very Germanic as well. It's sighted in for about 35 yds with a folding leaf that's sighted in at 100 yds. Overall it's very similar to the last pictures posted by Eric  Kettenburg. Overall it looks like a longrifle and when looked at closer, the Germanic influenences show up. I would urge you to build the rifle as you want. If it's important to you, it looks like you can easily justify your thinking. How about posting som pics when you get it done. I'd be curious.   
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Offline Medic980

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Re: Question about early period correct build
« Reply #18 on: February 12, 2022, 04:51:24 AM »
Not English that sounds exactly what I have in mind. The only thing I think I'll do different is a single trigger and germanic loop triggerguard. Where did you find the leaf rear sight I have not been able to find one but want to put one on this build?
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Offline Medic980

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Re: Question about early period correct build
« Reply #19 on: February 12, 2022, 04:55:33 AM »
Quote from: Craig Wilcox on February 09, 2022, 09:53:54 PM
MBS has some Ron Scott moldings for sale.  Quite ornate, very German look to them.  May be what you are looking for.
Craig I have seen his molds on MBS they are nice. I saw a german set of furniture that is absolutely beautiful that I want that Ron Scott posted on here seeing if those in his class would be interested in. I hope he gets the molds and will sell some sets of it.
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Offline Not English

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Re: Question about early period correct build
« Reply #20 on: February 12, 2022, 07:09:53 AM »
Medic, it's been quite awhile, but I think I got the sights  at Track of the Wolf. They were listed as a Jaeger sight. I used to have an account with them when I was  teaching a Kentucky Rifle Building class through the local Tech College. So I usewd them primarily. It  seems to me Mike Brooks has some of Reeves Gohring's stuff. Maybe he can help you. Otherwise post on the forum here. There's a lot of knowledge that's shared.
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Offline Medic980

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Re: Question about early period correct build
« Reply #21 on: February 12, 2022, 09:41:13 PM »
Quote from: Not English on February 12, 2022, 07:09:53 AM
Medic, it's been quite awhile, but I think I got the sights  at Track of the Wolf. They were listed as a Jaeger sight. I used to have an account with them when I was  teaching a Kentucky Rifle Building class through the local Tech College. So I usewd them primarily. It  seems to me Mike Brooks has some of Reeves Gohring's stuff. Maybe he can help you. Otherwise post on the forum here. There's a lot of knowledge that's shared.

Thanks Not English I'll give them a look.
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Offline Dphariss

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Re: Question about early period correct build
« Reply #22 on: February 13, 2022, 06:30:02 AM »
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Offline Medic980

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Re: Question about early period correct build
« Reply #23 on: February 13, 2022, 06:54:56 PM »
Quote from: Dphariss on February 13, 2022, 06:30:02 AM
Quote from: Frozen Run on January 25, 2022, 06:46:02 PM
https://live.cottoneauctions.com/lots/view/1-4FGMB7/american-revolutionary-war-era-tiger-maple-long-gun
Cool old rifle. Probably in use for 100 years.

It is a cool old rifle. Its a shame it hadn't been taken better care of through the years. The price it sold for is unbelievable. Must be nice to be stupid rich that you can drop hundreds of thousands on a piece of history.
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Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: Question about early period correct build
« Reply #24 on: February 13, 2022, 11:31:02 PM »
Quote from: Medic980 on February 13, 2022, 06:54:56 PM
Quote from: Dphariss on February 13, 2022, 06:30:02 AM
Quote from: Frozen Run on January 25, 2022, 06:46:02 PM
https://live.cottoneauctions.com/lots/view/1-4FGMB7/american-revolutionary-war-era-tiger-maple-long-gun
Cool old rifle. Probably in use for 100 years.

It is a cool old rifle. Its a shame it hadn't been taken better care of through the years. The price it sold for is unbelievable. Must be nice to be stupid rich that you can drop hundreds of thousands on a piece of history.
Being stupid isn't what gets you there, it's hard work and taking risk.
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