What type steel is the lock from Northstar Enterprise?

[mountainman]

So I have this Rogers Ranger Flintlock got it all polished up, and tried to make sparks, but no sparks.
Can someone tell me what's the proper step to get showers of sparks  It's seems like some youtube videos are not sufficient, least I tried using a propane held torch, and I heaped kasenite on the frizzen while red hot and dipped in motor oil 5-20 wt and polished it, and indeed it is hard the file can't scratch, very hard and smooth, and put in oven at 375 degrees for an hour, I got maybe one spark, at most times 0.
I know most lock makers use 1095 steel if I'm correct, but I didn't know what they would have used at Northstar?
So any help would be appreciated as to how's the best approach?

[mountainman]

I added a photo of the lock.

[Bill Madden]

If you bought your lock from Matt Denison at Northstar West, I believe he bought his lock parts from Larry Zornes at the Mold and Gunshop.
Bill

[smart dog]

Hi,
Is the flint actually scratching the frizzen and scraping off metal? 

dave

[Bob Roller]

Let's see the face of the frizzen.IF you used a Bernz-O-Matic torch they will not do job to harden a frizzen even with Kasenit.
The old Chet Shoults locks used 8620 and I got good results from case hardening with a Prestolite plumbers torch with a #5 tip and
Kasenit.I never heaped the hardening powder but after the bright orange heat occured I used a small scoop and poured a small amount
ane rhen restored the heat. I quenched in water.With frizzens cast from 52-100 (supposedly) I quenched in a light oil and after polishing it I drew the frizzen back to a light straw color.Some of these are still in use in Europe in competition as far as I now know.I did not draw the Shoults frizzens because the material did not harden when heated and water quenched.It does or did absorb the Kasenit quite well and the one I made for my own gun wore out 2 Bill Large barrels* and a Douglas,.
Bob Roller
* After the original rifling wore out,Bill rerifled it and when it wore out again the Douglas barrel was used and I now think the original barrel is back on the gun.

[mountainman]

I talked to Larry Zorne and he said from what I'm telling him it would seem like it is still too hard, so he suggested to try to temper it some more, by putting it in the oven at 450 degrees for an hour and half.
So I did, it pretty much is the same result I saw 1 spark, and the next couple times nothing, but it's still hard, the file can't even scratch it.  Posting 2 photos of the frizzen, you'll see some casting flaws, but the 2 shiny stripes is where the flint was riding on both sides, it's strikes very high on the frizzen, and rides the whole way down.

[mountainman]

Hi,
Is the flint actually scratching the frizzen and scraping off metal? 

dave

It would seem like it's not scratching at all.

[mountainman]

    (IF you used a Bernz-O-Matic torch)
Bob, I was using propane fuel they come in the shorter and wider green bottles.

[rich pierce]

I’d gently grind the face and look at the spark pattern closely. Very high carbon steel has a wonderful distinctive branching sparking pattern. https://www.google.com/search?q=steel+sparking+pattern+grinder&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-us&client=safari#imgdii=xiBH8DM9GqmpRM&imgrc=kLgU-wiEYrfvcM It’s likely high carbon if a file won’t touch it. What kind of file? New and fine or old and coarse?

Is the frizzen spring providing decent resistance? Is the flintlock mainspring strong? There’s more to it than frizzen hardness alone.

[Bob Roller]

I use the short green bottle for melting lead.The Presto Lite is acetylene and it is an air breathing torch.It is the only thing I have ever used for hardening and I use the Bernz-O-Matic for tempering.Crude methods but good results.The propane in the green bottle is the dame as the blue,slim cylinder.
Bob Roller

[smart dog]

Hi Mountainman,
Do what Rich suggested. Grind the face of the frizzen as flat as you can.  It appears to be slightly hollowed out in the center but that could just be the photos.  Second, the flint is hitting too high up.  Try a shorter flint so the scrape on the frizzen covers the lower 2/3s of the frizzen and the flint is angled more downward when it strikes the frizzen.  I am not sure you have a hardening problem as much as a geometry problem.  By the temper color it is clear you heated it to close to 470 degrees, which should be more than sufficient.  Also, Kasenit will only give you a very shallow skin of hardened steel.  If the frizzen does not have sufficient carbon to through harden, you really need to case harden it packed in charcoal for 90 minutes to 2 hours.

dave

[RichG]

I have this same lock. NSW Officers fusil. Bought it used so I'm not sure how old it is. Mine sparks ok, but not great. Always goes off with a sharp flint, but I only get 12-18 shots before it starts getting un-reliable.

[mountainman]

I have this same lock. NSW Officers fusil. Bought it used so I'm not sure how old it is. Mine sparks ok, but not great. Always goes off with a sharp flint, but I only get 12-18 shots before it starts getting un-reliable.

I got this one to spark with the help of another friend, but I'm not totally satisfied with it's performance, would almost seem like there is some issue with the geometry of this lock it seems like the cock sits too high and strikes the frizzen at the very top, if I use a shorter flint then the top jaw almost touches the frizzen and also the jaw screw.
It's performance now with the frizzen hitting high and it doesn't want to open completely, it may ignite or it may not, I don't know if that's an indication of the frizzen spring being too strong or not, or the main spring not strong enough? Or if it's the angle? When the point of the flint is completely down, it is facing the front side of the pan.

[rich pierce]

Some of these things are best diagnosed in hand. A series of pictures at 90 degrees to the lock, half cock, full cock, at rest could help us perhaps. But we can’t gauge spring strength or other issues from photos or descriptions.

[mountainman]

[mountainman]

The previous picture was full cock, second picture is half cock.

[mountainman]

Contact

[mountainman]

[mountainman]

[mountainman]

[mountainman]

[rich pierce]

At first glance it looks like the cock is too tall. Bending it might not work as you could have problems with top jaw or jaw screw hitting, or flint jabbing the pan. I’d like others to chime in.

Squashing the height of it vertically would not yield much height reduction, would take a great heat and 4 hands.

[Daryl]

To me, the cock looks too large/long for the frizzen length and angle.

[EC121]

  If it doesn't already, check the snap open angle of the frizzen. It should snap open at about 30-40deg. or just about as the flint leaves the bottom of the frizzen face.  If needed, you can grind/stone an angle on the back side of the frizzen foot to make it snap open.

[mountainman]

So I moved the frizzen to the point of flipping as close as I could, I would say at least 45 degrees before it flips. Another photo here.