Author Topic: Glass powder horns  (Read 2444 times)

Offline Dutch Blacky

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 255
Glass powder horns
« on: February 08, 2022, 02:55:45 PM »
Hi folks





https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e9/Powder_Horn%2C_Ellenville_Glass_Works%2C_Ulster_County%2C_NY%2C_c._1836-1880%2C_hand-blown_glass_with_applied_collar_-_Albany_Institute_of_History_and_Art_-_DSC08169.JPG 
By chance I found  the anouncement of an auction of a powder horn made of glass. Untill now, I did not know that there exosted powder horns made of this material. I thought glass is too fragile and there is the risk of electrostatic charge and the static spark set off black powder. (https://oldsouthjerseyglass.com/product_details/MTA1NA==)
I was  was wrong.
« Early South Jersey Glass Powder Horn, Year: 18th century - early 19th century, Weight:1 lbs
Rare early South Jersey glass powder horn. Late 18th-early 19th century. 7 3/4" long. Most folks dont know its a fact that glass powder horns were actually used for gun powder during the 18 and 19th century long before decorative whimsy horns were made. This is an authentic for use powder horn made somewhere in Southern New Jersey. Unlike natural cow horn powder horns glass was a perfect way to keep your powder dry and are more durable then many realize.“ (https://oldsouthjerseyglass.com/product_details/MTA1NA==)

And then I found an interesting article: https://www.fohbc.org/PDF_Files/GlassPowderHorns_CMunsey.pdf

But old and modern glass powder horns seem to be rare:
At the Texian Trade’n Post these glass horns are out of stock (https://texiantradenpost.wordpress.com/about/)

Have these glass powder horns also been made or used  in the US ? And how common have they been ?  Does anybody of the horners know more about it ?

Offline Dutch Blacky

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 255
Re: Glass powder horns
« Reply #1 on: February 08, 2022, 04:05:08 PM »


Have these glass powder horns also been made or used  in the US ?


meanwhile I found  a glass powder horn made in New Jersey:
https://www.philamuseum.org/collection/object/202838
Object Details
Title:   Powder Horn
Date:   1742-1753
Artist:   Attributed to Wistarburgh Glass Works, Alloway, New Jersey, 1739 - 1777
Medium:   Green non-lead glass
Dimensions:   3 3/4 x 1 1/4 x 8 inches (9.5 x 3.2 x 20.3 cm)
Classification:   Containers
Credit Line:   The George H. Lorimer Collection, 1938
Accession Number:   1938-23-323
Geography:   Probably made in Alloway, Salem County, New Jersey, United States, North and Central America


REALLY INTERESTING!

 

Offline alyce-james

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 909
Re: Glass powder horns
« Reply #2 on: February 08, 2022, 07:53:06 PM »
Sir. Good morning. Thank you for sharing the information about Glass Powder Horns. Very interesting.  I'm into powder horns and have an interest of hand blown glass. Have a deluxe week. AJ.
"Candy is Dandy but Liquor is Quicker". by Poet Ogden Nash 1931.

Offline T.C.Albert

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3535
    • the hunting pouch
Re: Glass powder horns
« Reply #3 on: February 09, 2022, 12:34:58 PM »
I believe studies have been done nixing the static charge danger. Joliet saw natives storing powder in double glass bottles or flasks when he and Marquette explored the Mississippi in the 1600s. A glass powder horn taken by raiding Indians in Texas was preproduced and sold until recently. The story about it is still referenced on line I believe.
Tim A.
   
"...where would you look up another word for thesaurus..."
Contact at : huntingpouch@gmail.com

Offline Dutch Blacky

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 255
Re: Glass powder horns
« Reply #4 on: February 09, 2022, 02:36:21 PM »
I believe studies have been done nixing the static charge danger.  ....................
Tim A.
   



I found this report of an experiment: https://ctmuzzleloaders.com/ctml_experiments/sparks/sparks.html

Offline Marcruger

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3677
Re: Glass powder horns
« Reply #5 on: February 09, 2022, 05:59:30 PM »
Cool, but I can think of several good reasons why cowhorn won out over glass.   :-D

Offline Dutch Blacky

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 255
Re: Glass powder horns
« Reply #6 on: February 09, 2022, 09:49:55 PM »
Cool, but I can think of several good reasons why cowhorn won out over glass.   :-D


You are right. Glass was a "high tec product",  rather expensive. You need a lot of energy to melt together the components, and the you got to have spezial skills. To be a glass maker, you had to pass a long education in good old Europe.

Cow horns on the other side are made of cheap material. I think, this surely  was a cause, why powder horns have still been made in times, when there just existed  an industrial production of  of metal powder flasks. ?????


But I think it´s fascinating to see the wide variety of materials and forms and decoration of powder horns.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2022, 09:56:20 PM by Dutch Blacky »

Offline Tanselman

  • member 2
  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1582
Re: Glass powder horns
« Reply #7 on: February 10, 2022, 02:24:48 AM »
I've collected powder horns for over 40 years now, and most of the glass horns I've seen have been fakes or reproductions, take your pick on how you want to describe it. The brown glass horn at the top of this thread may be original, but I would like to see the provenance on it, since it is very similar in color and shape to reproduction glass horns that have shown up from time to time for 25+ years or more. If a glass horn is shaped too much like a real cow horn, I am always suspicious. I own a brown glass horn that's almost identical to the illustrated horn, which I thought was authentic years ago, but after comments from experts in old glass, I'm worried about it now. If real, perhaps the lateness of the Ellensville, NY glass horns caused them to be heavier and shaped more like real powder horns than the earlier, authentic glass horns.

I have one good glass horn, hand blown, almost clear, somewhat more delicate than the heavier brown glass horn, that has passed muster, and while it does look generally like a horn, no real horn ever had its spout shape. There is at least one [and perhaps more] early painting of an 18th century New England gentlemen hunter with a glass horn...which also appeared to be more delicate than the heavy brown glass horn. Hope someone can find a researched article on the Ellenville glass factory that reportedly made the brown horns. It would be great reading.

Shelby Gallien

« Last Edit: February 11, 2022, 12:41:13 AM by Tanselman »

Offline T.C.Albert

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3535
    • the hunting pouch
Re: Glass powder horns
« Reply #8 on: February 10, 2022, 09:20:16 AM »
https://texiantradenpost.wordpress.com/catalog/glass-powder-horns

Here is a link to a little info on the Texas repos and the story of the original they are based on.
Tim A
"...where would you look up another word for thesaurus..."
Contact at : huntingpouch@gmail.com

Offline Dutch Blacky

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 255
Re: Glass powder horns
« Reply #9 on: February 10, 2022, 10:44:01 AM »
Thank you very much for the critical and informative comment @Tanselman.
 And also thanks to @T.C.Albert for the link.

I am glad to have found this forum, because this is the only place on the Internet that I know, where you can find so much gathered competence on the subject of powder flaks and horns, and where I can also ask questions about the objects I have acquired.

 Glass vessels in the form of powder horns were apparently not quite rare. I have already seen bottles in powder horn form, but also sugar glasses (Schott crystal glass), salt shakers and bottles for vinegar and oil, as well as drinking horns made of glass. And it has already been mentioned that the "gentleman" had his high-proof strength in a powder horn made of glass on the man.

A rather complex subject.

Offline smokinbuck

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2967
Re: Glass powder horns
« Reply #10 on: March 15, 2022, 06:58:46 PM »
I have a beautiful glass powder horn that is definitely a reproduction. It was made by the Franklin Mint to commemorate the bi centennial. It may not be very functional but it is pretty. I believe the body is crystal and it is covered with relief cut sterling silver bands and illustrations. Got to admit I've not run up on any glass horns or flasks that I would take a chance on.
Mark

Offline Dutch Blacky

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 255
Re: Glass powder horns
« Reply #11 on: April 02, 2023, 06:37:05 AM »
Just discovered a glass powder flask.

Maybe it was just always  as an object for decoration and not for use with black powder

https://www.ebay.de/itm/255253308190