Author Topic: N. Gatz or N. Getz maker?  (Read 2144 times)

Offline Austin

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N. Gatz or N. Getz maker?
« on: February 10, 2022, 05:03:50 AM »
This could possibly be my first serious post… My dad’s friend (both in their 80’s) are trying to figure out age and maker of this long rifle signed N Gatz or N Getz. Its at least 30 years old, last purchased in central Illinois. They think its a 45 cal and these pics are the best i got.  Any chance anyone knows anything about this rifle / maker?






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Offline Stoner creek

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Re: N. Gatz or N. Getz maker?
« Reply #1 on: February 10, 2022, 05:14:02 AM »
Norton Gatz of Louisville Kentucky. German fellow. An original member of the Kentucky Corps of Longriflemen. A piece of history for Corps members. I’d like to inspect this one.
It probably dates to the late 50s to mid 60s.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2022, 05:18:39 AM by Stoner creek »
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Offline Austin

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Re: N. Gatz or N. Getz maker?
« Reply #2 on: February 10, 2022, 05:34:26 AM »
Well $&@t! All i had to do was holler down the creek….. sorry to bother everyone! Thanks Wayne!
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Offline Ky-Flinter

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Re: N. Gatz or N. Getz maker?
« Reply #3 on: February 10, 2022, 06:23:30 AM »
I’d like to inspect this one.

Me too!

Ron
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Birddog6

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Re: N. Gatz or N. Getz maker?
« Reply #4 on: February 13, 2022, 07:52:57 PM »
Norton Gatz lived in Louisville, KY.  Born 1922, passed in 2004.  He worked for 42 years at Supervisor at Stimpson Computing Scale Co., I was told by his son was a company that made & repaired scales. Worked his way from machinist apprentice to Superintendent. to the best of my knowledge.
When he retired to his shop at home, he had a couple lathes, milling machine, drill press, and Drawers of milling & drilling bits & reamers & broaches, etc.  I have his old patterns for rifles, locks, trigger, patchboxes & etc.   The guy could make practically Anything with machinery.  I bought all of his tools from his shop, including a Sine Rifling Machine that he made & it is incredible.  Prob. gonna sell the stuff, as I am not using any of it. More lathe & milling tools that I know how to even use.  Too late in the day for me to start over. 

Here are some photos of the Sine rifling machine, just for those that don't know what one is.  It is a manual machine, but
quite intricate. Barrel is clamped down stationary.  Once you are set up, you pull the cutter head thru the bore until it
quits pulling a shaving, then you turn a set screw on the cutter head 1/16 to 1/8 turn & slightly lifts the cutter, and you
repeat pulling,  & you do this til you have the desired depth of rifling you want. Cutter is bathed in oil on each pull thru the bore. 

Then you pull the spring loaded pin on the Indexing Head & go to the next Pin Hole of that # Groove your are cutting &
you cut the next groove. 

It will cut cuts 5-6-7-8-9  grooves, depending on bore dia. &  cutter width. 

Rate of Twist is determined by you & what position you move the twist adjusting bar to. I know it does 48, 54, 66, 72,
Rate of Twist and will do more or less if you want.  It will rifle a barrel over 48" in length. 

It came with a whole box of cutter heads (32) with bits from ? 32 up to .85 calibers it appears. And also about a dozen unrifled octagon barrels. And 17 mold cherries or round ball mold cutters.

You can grind you cutter head bits to cut any shape Groove you want,  be it Radius Cut groove, Straight Cut groove, or Concave Cut groove rifling.  It it is quite unique & very cheap to change the cutter bit, you simply slip it out of the head, sharpen it & reinsert it, or grind a new cutter head the shape you want out of flat 1/8 or 3/16" tempered steel.  It is quite a impressive machine design.

It is a pretty neat machine & I have never see one like it.  The guy really was a mechanical genius. The gear drive on it is really snug & no play in the geartrain of the machine.  And of course it has roller bearings on the traveling parts of the machine. etc.

We took the legs off to get it out of the basement & it was still a chore for 4  men to get it up & out the small 26" basement door & up steep steps. Don't know what type of machine the legs came off from, but they are cast iron & really heavy. It's quite a nice machine & would most likely last several lifetimes.
 















« Last Edit: February 15, 2022, 06:07:25 PM by D. Keith Lisle »

Birddog6

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Re: N. Gatz or N. Getz maker?
« Reply #5 on: February 13, 2022, 07:58:50 PM »
Quote
This could possibly be my first serious post… My dad’s friend (both in their 80’s) are trying to figure out age and maker of this long rifle signed N Gatz or N Getz. Its at least 30 years old, last purchased in central Illinois. They think its a 45 cal and these pics are the best i got.  Any chance anyone knows anything about this rifle / maker?

I can tell you when he retired & passed, as I have that info. out in the shop with his tools. Then you can get a general idea of the rifle is at least ? old.  Probably made in the 50's, 60's, or 70's.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2022, 11:25:28 PM by Ky-Flinter »

Offline LynnC

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Re: N. Gatz or N. Getz maker?
« Reply #6 on: February 13, 2022, 08:03:23 PM »
Very cool piece of rifling machinery.
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Offline Dphariss

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Re: N. Gatz or N. Getz maker?
« Reply #7 on: February 13, 2022, 08:58:22 PM »
Norton Gatz lived in Louisville, KY.  He was a Master Machinist & worked & supervised a scale company that made & repaired scales. When he retired to his shop, he had a couple lathes, milling machine, drill press, and lots of milling & drilling bits & reamers
& broaches, etc.  I have his old patterns for rifles, locks, trigger, patchboxes & etc.   The guy could make practically Anything with machinery.  I bought all of his tools from his shop, including a Sine Rifling Machine that he made & it is incredible.  Prob. gonna sell the stuff, as I am not using any of it. More lathe & milling tools that I know how to even use.  Too late in the day for me to start over. 

Here are some photos of the Sine rifling machine, just for those that don't know what one is.  It is a manual machine, but
quite intricate. Barrel is clamped down stationary.  Once you are set up, you pull the cutter head thru the bore until it
quits pulling a shaving, then you turn a set screw on the cutter head 1/16 to 1/8 turn & slightly lifts the cutter, and you
repeat pulling,  & you do this til you have the desired depth of rifling you want. Cutter is bathed in oil on each pull thru the bore. 

Then you pull the spring loaded pin on the Indexing Head & go to the next Pin Hole of that # Groove your are cutting &
you cut the next groove. 
It will cut cuts 5-6-7-8-9  grooves, depending on bore dia. &  cutter width. 
Rate of Twist is determined by you & what position you move the twist adjusting bar to. I know it does 48, 54, 66, 72,
Rate of Twist and will do more or less if you want.  It will rifle a barrel over 48" in length.  It came with a whole box of
cutter heads with bits from ? 32 up to .72 I think, well normal calibers I know.
It is a pretty neat machine & I have never see one like it.  The guy really was a mechanical genius.
 











Would love to have this but I am pretty far West.
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Birddog6

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Re: N. Gatz or N. Getz maker?
« Reply #8 on: February 13, 2022, 09:07:42 PM »
Here is some of Mr. Gatz patterns & etc.  He was making triggers, locks, etc.  You can see a prototype of a underhammer trigger mechanism.  It appears he first did a paper design. Then cut them out on sheet brass or sheet copper as then easier to transfer when he made them.  Prob a dozen lock & trigger patterns on brass.  The guy must have been Really sharp.
Note:  All the brass trigger asm patterns & Lock patterns, he made brass or copper tinplates of each part, then wired them together so they would stay together.







These are lead poured on rod Barrel Freshening Tools.












« Last Edit: February 14, 2022, 12:23:23 AM by D. Keith Lisle »

Offline Austin

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Re: N. Gatz or N. Getz maker?
« Reply #9 on: February 14, 2022, 05:46:42 AM »
Fascinating! Thank you!
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Birddog6

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Re: N. Gatz or N. Getz maker?
« Reply #10 on: February 14, 2022, 03:56:06 PM »
[Would love to have this but I am pretty far West.
[/quote]

Naaaaa....  Whats a couple days drive, definitely better weather here & see a dif. side of the mountain... Gab yer trailer & a couple of tiedown straps & c'mon over.  Can even load it all with a forklift. 

Offline Dphariss

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Re: N. Gatz or N. Getz maker?
« Reply #11 on: February 16, 2022, 05:23:26 AM »
[Would love to have this but I am pretty far West.

Naaaaa....  Whats a couple days drive, definitely better weather here & see a dif. side of the mountain... Gab yer trailer & a couple of tiedown straps & c'mon over.  Can even load it all with a forklift.
[/quote]
I am going to Camp Perry, OH in August with a team.
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Offline duca

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Re: N. Gatz or N. Getz maker?
« Reply #12 on: February 16, 2022, 11:34:19 AM »
Wow this is very interesting. When I was a kid my friends father took us to Harry’s Army Navy in Hamilton Township New Jersey on route 130 back in the 70’s. We were just getting into blackpowder then so his father took us there. I never forgot the rifle they had there that I was In Complete Ore with. I never forgot that rifle they had there that I held and wish I could’ve bought. The name on the barrel said N Gatz they wanted $200 bucks for it. No way I was buying that being a teenager with no job. Any chance in a pic of his name on the barrel? Thanks so much for posting this what a blast from the past

Anthony
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God created the Longrifle...

Offline bones92

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Re: N. Gatz or N. Getz maker?
« Reply #13 on: February 18, 2022, 04:27:37 PM »
Keith, that is awesome.  Thanks for sharing.  I sure hope tools and machines like this get preserved and continue to be used in someone's shop.  The knowledge of how to operate them is a perishable skill and should be propagated.

Despite having done no gunsmithing or building myself, I could see myself perhaps taking this up when I'm somewhat retired.   
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Offline frankie

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Re: N. Gatz or N. Getz maker?
« Reply #14 on: May 24, 2022, 04:09:26 AM »
The late 50"s