My first build and muzzleloader, inspired by Herb and JB

[HighUintas]

Hi All,

I am just starting my first build. It will be my first muzzleloader! I thought I'd document it here, and those who feel the need can offer advice and/or tear my craftsmanship or lack thereof to shreds

It all started when I read The Big Sky, by A B Guthrie, Courage Undaunted by Stephen Ambrose, and saw one of Jim Bridgers Hawken rifles in the mountain man museum in Pinedale, WY.  I am a lifelong hunter and grew up very close to St. Louis, but despite those two facts I for some reason knew very little about the Corps of Discovery and the fur trade shortly after booming in the west. I now live in Utah and the Uintas are my favorite mountain range I've spent time in. Come to find out, that NF is named after the owner of the RMFC who was from STL and had a Hawken made when he traveled west with his trappers! Well, now I need to get a muzzleloader, likely a Hawken, and pretend I'm a mountain man. So, I researched quite a bit and happened to find some threads here and on another forum detailing builds of Hawken rifles and I realized that I want to build one and I also want to have a rifle that one of Ashley's trapper's may have had, so of course I can't get a percussion Hawken. I found many threads and posts by Herb detailing his builds and how he has replicated a few of them so we'll, along with sharing his depth of knowledge on the Hawken brothers rifles. Then I found out he's in Utah! So, i contacted him and he agreed to help me out and show me some of his work. I had a marvelous time visiting with Herb, hearing all his stories and even listening to some of his tunes played on the guitar. Thanks, Herb, that made my day!

Well, he told me over the phone before I visited that he was going to make a Jim Beckwourth rifle. I remembered that I almost bought a book about him when I was at the museum in Pinedale and wished I would have. I looked up Jim Beckwourth's rifle and found it to be exactly what I want to hunt with! Well, maybe not exactly because that rifle is a serious club. So Herb helped me out with some of the details Of the rifle such as measurements and an outline.

I decided to scale it down a bit so that it's more functional for me while hunting and also wanted to do a flint version of it. So, I don't know if I'm calling this a scaled early beckwourth rifle, or if I'm just saying it's inspired by his. Either way I'm going to try to get as many of the details correct as my novice skillet allows.

I have a 58cal x1x36" colerain barrel and a plain maple blank, along with various parts that will need modification.

So far, I've got the breech plug fitted to the barrel, my design drawn on the blank and have the blank partially cut. I'm working with a handsaw and rasp, so it's slow going so far.

I'd post a few pictures but haven't figured out how without using that third party photo site.

[HighUintas]

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[HighUintas]

[rich pierce]

Is this what you’re building but in flint? Where would you date it? https://www.muzzleloadermagazine.com/index.php?main_page=page&id=14

[HighUintas]

Is this what you’re building but in flint? Where would you date it? https://www.muzzleloadermagazine.com/index.php?main_page=page&id=14

Yes it is, except it will be scaled down, flint, and likely not have the wrist repair wrap. So, basically what it may have been like earlier in it's life.

As for a date... I don't know. I have nowhere near the knowledge many of the members here do. But, I would say 1820s. The stock shows evidence it was a flintlock, the rifle has some hallmark Hawken qualities such as the barrel design, front sight copper base, beaver tail cheek. But it is not stamped Hawken, so I'm guessing it was done by Jacob H and/or Lakenan prior to Beckwourth heading west in 1824/25.

[LynnC]

You are on the right track. Drawings on both paper and stock.

[mikeyfirelock]

I applaud your decision  to use hand tools……for several reasons.  Mistakes tend to happen slower ( and are thus less critical) in my experience, and the satisfaction  you can get in doing the job this way is  immeasurable.   Work carefully and thoughtfully.   ( if you are like me, by all means use a drill press though !)
Mikeyfirelock

[Daniel Coats]

Hand tools rock, too soon?

[flinchrocket]

Besides, you  can always get the electric tools out if it gets too tough. Right Daniel. 

[Daniel Coats]

Besides, you  can always get the electric tools out if it gets too tough. Right Daniel. 

A man's gotta know his limitations!

~Dirty Harry 1973~

[flinchrocket]

Endeavor to Persevere- Chief Dan George

[HighUintas]

Yes the plan was to only use a drill press in the whole process. I'd really like to do it with the same tools they would have used at the time to get the full experience, but I'm working with what I've got.

I almost gave up on the handsaw after doing the top of the barrel channel and asked my buddy if I could use his bandsaw, but decided to give it another shot. I then did the rest of the top and bottom of the buttsock to the curve. I laid out plenty of cut depth lines on the backside to make sure I was staying square, or at least not cutting too far in. After doing a couple more cuts, my confidence is back with the handsaw and it really didn't take all that long.

But the inside curves... Dang I don't know how I'm going to cut those out in a reasonable amount of time. Neither my surform or #50 rasp is very efficient for that. Maybe chisels?

[Daniel Coats]

Cut depth lines and chisels will work on inside curves. Today I used the hand saw in shorter straight cuts along the inside curve then a rasp to finish.

[Craig Wilcox]

The bow saw, with it's narrow blade, will cut some inside curves - concave curve.

[borderdogs]

"Stick around" Predator 1986: Arnold Schwarzenegger
Rob

[rich pierce]

Most saw blades need sharpening. I sharpen mine using magnification. Depending on blade hardness I use find files or diamond files.  Then sawing is a whole different experience. I use a frame saw where a regular rip saw won’t work. My rip hand saw is an aggressive beast.

[Bob Roller]

Endeavor to Persevere- Chief Dan George

We held a council and the declared war on the Union?? Did the Beckwourth rifle have that much drop in the stock?
Bob Roller

[flinchrocket]

[HighUintas]

Quite a bit of drop! His LOP was around 14-14.5" (can't remember exactly) and the drop nearly 4" I think. I'll have to double check my notes later. The rifle is really interesting. I'm no expert, but in comparing it to available parts at TOW it seems to have design features similar to a few different regions

[Herb]

I took over 100 measurements of the original rifle.  The drop at heel from the top of the barrel was 4.1 inches.  The length of pull was 14 inches to the front trigger.  I was asked by Jeff Hengesbaugh, who owns the rifle, to make a bench copy for him, except in flintlock as it was originally made.  The butt plate is riveted at the top.  The trigger spur is riveted on.  I tried to find available parts that would work with modification.  HighUintas found a better trigger than I had selected.  The triggers will need to be bent, but that is easy to do.  HighUintas is doing a really good job on his copy of this rifle.  He is already aware of and doing things it has taken me 150 to 200 builds to learn. 

[borderdogs]

I am sure you have inspired many builders Herb you have inspired me to name one. My interests have always been plains rifles, Hawken in particular starting back when I built my first from a kit in 1979 then when I started again building a flint parts set in 2019. I have poured over your posts on them and Taylor's Hawken Stuff posts. I am finishing my 3rd and 4th if I count the one from way back and have  part set from Don Stith and some other assembled parts. Thanks for the detailed posts Herb I am grateful you made the information available to all of us.
Rob

[Frozen Run]

Cut depth lines and chisels will work on inside curves.

Just to add clarification for HighUintas, what Daniel is referring to here are called stop cuts and they are very useful in a number of applications. They allow you to drive the chisel towards the cut to relieve large pieces of wood without risking your stock. For areas such as the butt plate profile that incorporate complex curves it is generally useful to have a series of them close together.

Similarly, if you decided to saw out an area, you would still want to saw in relief cuts. A relief cut is the same as a stop cut but it relieves tension on the blade as scrap gets released from the stock.

I prefer Daniel's method for a butt plate profile, it's slower but eliminates the problem that can happen if your saw runs askew.

Your project is looking great so far!   

[Elnathan]

Not to dampen your enthusiasm, but we've discussed this rifle here before, and evidence suggests that it is not a Hawken:

https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=58085.msg581585#msg581585

https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=35529.msg341735#msg341735

I at least find the Beckwourth connection implausible, for what that is worth. Still a good looking gun and appropriate for the Fur Trade era (maybe!), I think.

[HighUintas]

Cut depth lines and chisels will work on inside curves.

Just to add clarification for HighUintas, what Daniel is referring to here are called stop cuts and they are very useful in a number of applications. They allow you to drive the chisel towards the cut to relieve large pieces of wood without risking your stock. For areas such as the butt plate profile that incorporate complex curves it is generally useful to have a series of them close together.

Similarly, if you decided to saw out an area, you would still want to saw in relief cuts. A relief cut is the same as a stop cut but it relieves tension on the blade as scrap gets released from the stock.

I prefer Daniel's method for a butt plate profile, it's slower but eliminates the problem that can happen if your saw runs askew.

Your project is looking great so far!

Yes I think it describes this technique in the recreating the American Longrifle book I have. Make a series of crosscuts close together down to the depth/profile line and then chisel out, correct?

[HighUintas]

Not to dampen your enthusiasm, but we've discussed this rifle here before, and evidence suggests that it is not a Hawken:

https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=58085.msg581585#msg581585

https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=35529.msg341735#msg341735

I at least find the Beckwourth connection implausible, for what that is worth. Still a good looking gun and appropriate for the Fur Trade era (maybe!), I think.

Not to worry. My enthusiasm will remain high! I don't have any doubt the rifle was owned by Jim Beckwourth. I think the evidence is clear there. As for it being built by Jake Hawken and/or Lakenan, yes it's hard to say for sure and yes it does bear a very close resemblance to the rifle from Booneville in that other thread. I wish the owner of that rifle would provide some information about the internals of the barrel and more details on the rest of the exterior.