Author Topic: Another "dragoon" type pistol - Finished assembling the pistol  (Read 9477 times)

Offline smart dog

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Re: Another "dragoon" type pistol - Main spring madness !!!
« Reply #50 on: May 24, 2022, 01:13:05 AM »
Hi Dave,
Oh boy.  It is a pattern 1738 pistol lock. The actual spring should look like this.



I think the arrangement was compromised by grinding away the screw hole.  The upper leaf should be more parallel (but not fully parallel) with the barrel.  I honestly do not think you can salvage the spring without welding steel to the lug under the bolster changing the angle of the upper leaf.  These are not hard springs to make from scratch and if you want to call me (send a PM) I can help you do it.

dave




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Offline Clint

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Re: Another "dragoon" type pistol - Main spring madness !!!
« Reply #51 on: May 24, 2022, 03:31:04 AM »
I have never kept track of how many times I assemble and disassemble a lock while building one. I suspect it goes into the hundreds. If the spring works satisfactorily , you could mark the tumbler nose right where the spring hook lies at rest and file the length back to the line. By getting the tumbler nose out of the hook, the full cock draw will lighten up, even if it still bears on the inside of the hook, it will be less. I like to build locks in pairs or sets of three. that way when I get into a jam on one, my awareness heightens and the problem can be approached differently on the others. Another secret to lock making is to build the lock (s) a year or so before you start the gun. That takes ALL of the pressure off of delaying the whole build and the problem can be solved more easily. Lock making is not easy, but I really enjoy building them.

Offline smart dog

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Re: Another "dragoon" type pistol - Main spring madness !!!
« Reply #52 on: May 24, 2022, 02:42:00 PM »
Hi Dave,
Here is a British carbine lock, which is very similar to yours just a little bigger.  The photo of the interior was made prior to final polishing but just after heat treating. The lower leaf of the mainspring is fairly straight at half cock. When pulled to full, the leaf is straight and just about butts against the upper leaf.  When dismounted from the tumbler but installed on the plate, the lower leaf is parallel with the bottom of the lock plate at the bend for a very short distance, and then curves evenly downward so the hook drops below the plate.   




I've found that many of these cast springs are more trouble than they are worth because you really have to clean them up inside and outside of the leaves. I often have to thin the underside of the upper leaf and upper side of the lower to avoid the problem you encountered. Just a little change in positioning can really matter. 

dave
"The main accomplishment of modern economics is to make astrology look good."

Offline Bob Roller

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Re: Another "dragoon" type pistol - Main spring madness !!!
« Reply #53 on: May 24, 2022, 10:14:32 PM »
I have never kept track of how many times I assemble and disassemble a lock while building one. I suspect it goes into the hundreds. If the spring works satisfactorily , you could mark the tumbler nose right where the spring hook lies at rest and file the length back to the line. By getting the tumbler nose out of the hook, the full cock draw will lighten up, even if it still bears on the inside of the hook, it will be less. I like to build locks in pairs or sets of three. that way when I get into a jam on one, my awareness heightens and the problem can be approached differently on the others. Another secret to lock making is to build the lock (s) a year or so before you start the gun. That takes ALL of the pressure off of delaying the whole build and the problem can be solved more easily. Lock making is not easy, but I really enjoy building them.
I enjoyed making them but after the CLA Show in 2019 I decided that "Too much is enough" and made a low end Hawken lock because I had a plate that was right for this one job and that was IT.Springs take a bit of time but once the skill set is gained it isn't that hard.
It's been about 20 years,maybe more since I made one of these direct contact springs but they are no harder than the linked types.
Bob Roller
Recently I had inquiries as to what I thought was a "Low end"Hawken lock.Bob Woodfill's new book shows the Archie Peterson Hawken and that lock was what I copied.I made one 50 years ago for Tom Dawson and it had a single screw at the top of the bridle and a single position
tumbler meaning fully cocked or all the way down.Springs were not beveled and polished but left with the temper colors of dark blue which is OK.My preference is for the top of the line locks common to English guns and I did enjoy making them.There is still some material to make them with but no real interest at this time.This Peterson copy was for a local man who has a nice collection of my locks and triggers.
Bob Roller
« Last Edit: July 04, 2022, 04:42:38 PM by Bob Roller »

Offline davec2

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Re: Another "dragoon" type pistol - Main spring madness !!!
« Reply #54 on: May 25, 2022, 06:54:04 PM »
Clint.....good advice about doing the lock work early.  I would have had this pistol done quite a while ago except for fooling around with the lock... :o

David.....I cut the screw loop off the top of this spring for exactly the reason you mention.  The loop put the upper leaf of the spring so far down on the plate that the lower leaf was in contact with it at half cock and made going to full cock ridiculously hard.  I would very much like to make a new forged spring for this lock but I need some "adult supervision" and will be happy to take you up on your offer of help.  I'll send a PM.  Thanks
"No man will be a sailor who has contrivance enough to get himself into a jail; for being in a ship is being in a jail, with the chance of being drowned... a man in a jail has more room, better food, and commonly better company."
Dr. Samuel Johnson, 1780

Offline davec2

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Re: Another "dragoon" type pistol - Main spring madness !!!
« Reply #55 on: May 27, 2022, 02:23:12 AM »
OK....so I had a long conversation with Smart Dog on the phone and he was kind enough to give me a verbal tutorial on the fine art of spring making.  In addition, we had a delightful and free ranging conversation about a lot of things from the average age of those of us interested in flintlocks all the way to the center of gravity / center of pressure relationships and the ballistic qualities of large animal tranquilizer darts.  David is as great a gentleman as he is a gunsmith and artist and I wanted to publicly express my thanks for his kindness in taking the time to keep me from going berserk over a silly mainspring.   ;) :) 

Thanks very much again, David !
"No man will be a sailor who has contrivance enough to get himself into a jail; for being in a ship is being in a jail, with the chance of being drowned... a man in a jail has more room, better food, and commonly better company."
Dr. Samuel Johnson, 1780

Offline smart dog

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Hi Dave,
Wow, thank you.  The regard is mutual.

dave
"The main accomplishment of modern economics is to make astrology look good."

Offline davec2

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Re: Another "dragoon" type pistol - Finished assembling the lock
« Reply #57 on: June 29, 2022, 11:20:37 PM »
OK....so I finally had a chance to re-work the main spring and then make all the screws so I could finish assembling this lock.  Got it all done, hardened the tumbler, sear, and frizzen....put it all back together....and it works !  Now it shouldn't take long to inlet the lock parts and finish the pistol....I hope !





"No man will be a sailor who has contrivance enough to get himself into a jail; for being in a ship is being in a jail, with the chance of being drowned... a man in a jail has more room, better food, and commonly better company."
Dr. Samuel Johnson, 1780

Offline Daryl

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Re: Another "dragoon" type pistol - Finished assembling the lock
« Reply #58 on: June 30, 2022, 07:25:24 AM »
Marvelous work, Dave. Thanks.
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V

Offline Bob Roller

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Re: Another "dragoon" type pistol - Finished assembling the lock
« Reply #59 on: June 30, 2022, 02:08:04 PM »
I get tired just thinking of the time and effort involved in one of these kit locks and have no real interest in making them from "scratch"
again.I do say "Congatulations on completing this job and I hope it keeps on working as intended.
Bob Roller

Offline davec2

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Lock is installed, but I want to rework the trigger a little.  Only need to make a ramrod and install a front sight after I polish the barrel. Then stain and finish....





"No man will be a sailor who has contrivance enough to get himself into a jail; for being in a ship is being in a jail, with the chance of being drowned... a man in a jail has more room, better food, and commonly better company."
Dr. Samuel Johnson, 1780

Offline smart dog

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Uh Oh,
Somebody got caught with his fingers in the inletting black. ;)  You could turn it into one of those dark sea service pistols.  It is looking spectacular, Dave!

dave
"The main accomplishment of modern economics is to make astrology look good."

Offline davec2

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David,

I got more than my fingers in the lamp soot !!!!  I won't get into where else I discovered it  :o  I'll get it all cleaned off before staining and finishing.... ;)
"No man will be a sailor who has contrivance enough to get himself into a jail; for being in a ship is being in a jail, with the chance of being drowned... a man in a jail has more room, better food, and commonly better company."
Dr. Samuel Johnson, 1780

Offline davec2

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Been up to my ....well....how about belly button.... in aerospace work lately but I had a few minutes to make the ram rod for the Dragoon.  Many years ago I purchased a Michael Lea tool to turn square stock round or round stock to a smaller diameter.  I had never had a chance to use it....until now.  I put a piece of 1/2" diameter hickory dowel in my lathe and used Mike's tool to reduce most of the diameter to a little less than 9/32" and then flare the tip out to about 7/16.  The tool worked beautifully !!   Now I'm looking for excuses to use it.... ;)


"No man will be a sailor who has contrivance enough to get himself into a jail; for being in a ship is being in a jail, with the chance of being drowned... a man in a jail has more room, better food, and commonly better company."
Dr. Samuel Johnson, 1780

Offline davec2

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Re: Another "dragoon" type pistol - Had to make a ram rod.
« Reply #64 on: July 29, 2022, 08:39:47 AM »
Stained the wood.....just did a quick assembly to see how it will look.


"No man will be a sailor who has contrivance enough to get himself into a jail; for being in a ship is being in a jail, with the chance of being drowned... a man in a jail has more room, better food, and commonly better company."
Dr. Samuel Johnson, 1780

Offline Grischi

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Re: Another "dragoon" type pistol - Had to make a ram rod.
« Reply #65 on: July 29, 2022, 03:48:34 PM »
Stained the wood.....just did a quick assembly to see how it will look.

It looks awesome. Great pistol.

Christian

Offline Otto

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Re: Another "dragoon" type pistol - Stained it to see how it looks.
« Reply #66 on: July 30, 2022, 01:56:03 AM »
Nice, very clean work as always.

Offline davec2

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Re: Another "dragoon" type pistol - Stained it to see how it looks.
« Reply #67 on: July 30, 2022, 04:19:01 AM »
Pulled the pistol back apart today to start putting finish on the stock.  While that was drying, I soldered a rough shaped sterling silver front sight on the barrel.  (Unlike most smooth bore Dragoons, this one is rifled so I did add a rear and front sight.)



"No man will be a sailor who has contrivance enough to get himself into a jail; for being in a ship is being in a jail, with the chance of being drowned... a man in a jail has more room, better food, and commonly better company."
Dr. Samuel Johnson, 1780

Offline BrianS

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Re: Another "dragoon" type pistol - Soldered on a front sight.
« Reply #68 on: July 30, 2022, 06:02:23 PM »
"this one is rifled so I did add a rear and front sight."

When you have a chance... would you please show the rear sight also?  TIA

Offline davec2

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Re: Another "dragoon" type pistol - Soldered on a front sight.
« Reply #69 on: July 31, 2022, 03:54:26 AM »
Brian,

When I machined the breech plug, I left extra steel on top to form the rear sight.  Nothing fancy....more like the rear notch you would find on a fowler....but sufficient for  Dragoon pistol.


"No man will be a sailor who has contrivance enough to get himself into a jail; for being in a ship is being in a jail, with the chance of being drowned... a man in a jail has more room, better food, and commonly better company."
Dr. Samuel Johnson, 1780

Offline Marcruger

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Re: Another "dragoon" type pistol - Soldered on a front sight.
« Reply #70 on: July 31, 2022, 05:47:02 PM »
Gorgeous.   

Offline Marcruger

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Re: Another "dragoon" type pistol - Soldered on a front sight.
« Reply #71 on: July 31, 2022, 05:54:15 PM »
"When I machined the breech plug, I left extra steel on top to form the rear sight.  Nothing fancy....more like the rear notch you would find on a fowler....but sufficient for  Dragoon pistol."

Nothing fancy?   Looks pretty elegant and detailed to me sir.  Not many folks machine their own breechplugs to start with either. 

Offline davec2

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Re: Another "dragoon" type pistol - Rear sight photo.
« Reply #72 on: September 03, 2022, 06:18:19 AM »
I have been away for quite some time......just got back for a while and had a few hours to finish up the Dragoon pistol.  It came out OK....not the best....but functional and shootable.  The last picture is the new one with the two previous pistols I built.  I have four more in work.  Now if I only had the time to finish them.... ??? :-\















"No man will be a sailor who has contrivance enough to get himself into a jail; for being in a ship is being in a jail, with the chance of being drowned... a man in a jail has more room, better food, and commonly better company."
Dr. Samuel Johnson, 1780

Offline Bob Gerard

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Re: Another "dragoon" type pistol - Finished assembling the pistol
« Reply #73 on: September 03, 2022, 01:40:08 PM »
From the hands of a true Master. Beautiful pistols!!!

Offline p.d.

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Re: Another "dragoon" type pistol - Finished assembling the pistol
« Reply #74 on: September 03, 2022, 06:37:07 PM »
Exquisite!