Author Topic: 18th Century Possibles Bag and Accoutrements  (Read 3536 times)

Offline Mike M

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18th Century Possibles Bag and Accoutrements
« on: February 26, 2022, 12:31:23 AM »
So here we are. Current state of affairs with the 18th Century Flintlock Accoutrements ... just a few missing required items. Aside from greased patches, an oil tin, and powder in the horn;  What am I missing for a Revolution Era set-up?

(Top to bottom, left to right)
Musket Ball bag w/ a few balls, Fire starter tin w/ Flint & Steel, Jute and Char-Cloth, Frizzen Cover, "Cows Knee", Flint Wallet; w/ 6 English flints, Multi-tool, Vent Picks, Pan Brush; Ramrod Tips: Cleaning Jag, Ball Puller, Patch Puller; Pocket Knife, Powder Measure, .490" Ball Mold, Short Ball Starter, Patch Knife, Possibles Bag w/ Knife Sheath and Powder Horn, Belt Axe.


« Last Edit: February 26, 2022, 12:34:45 AM by MikesRJ »
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Offline Tim Crosby

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Re: 18th Century Possibles Bag and Accoutrements
« Reply #1 on: February 26, 2022, 12:40:19 AM »
 Depends on how far you want to go with it. I would think maybe a hook & fishing line, Tabaco pouch, fork, small bell to tie on branch for security, Salt horn, I'm sure there is more.

  Tim C.

Offline TN Longhunter

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Re: 18th Century Possibles Bag and Accoutrements
« Reply #2 on: February 26, 2022, 01:02:39 AM »
+2 on the fishing kit. Eating utensils, container for lubricant (patch),  oil container for the lock, compass, lead and pouch ladle to go with the mold. Well on the way.
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Offline Mike M

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Re: 18th Century Possibles Bag and Accoutrements
« Reply #3 on: February 26, 2022, 01:58:28 AM »
Precisely why I asked, Tim and TN. I’ve been known to take it pretty far … LOL …if you can think
It, post it up. I’ll entertain all answers and pick what I actually might use.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2022, 05:05:16 AM by MikesRJ »
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Offline Clark Badgett

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Re: 18th Century Possibles Bag and Accoutrements
« Reply #4 on: February 26, 2022, 02:51:40 AM »
In reality you probably have too much in your ball bag. Put everything not needed to immediately keep your rifle running in your blanket roll. Loose balls, patches measure and flint tool in the bag. Patchbox can hold your worm, tow and a couple of flints.  Please do not take this as criticism, but the bag while well made, does not scream early to me, it screams golden or later era from what little I've been able to find.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2022, 05:08:38 AM by Clark Badgett »
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Offline Mike from OK

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Re: 18th Century Possibles Bag and Accoutrements
« Reply #5 on: February 26, 2022, 12:21:26 PM »
First, welcome to the site! Lots of good info here. Tim and TN may have been tugging your chain just a tad... Perhaps not. A lot is lost when typed vs spoken.

Second... Let me see if I can figure out how to link videos. Hooray, it worked. Bob has a whole series of videos... Black Powder TV on YouTube.



Here is what I carry to feed my .45 Bedford...

Horn with measure attached. Belt knife in a sheath... I am able to start my patch/ball with the flat butt of my knife so it doubles as patch knife and ball starter. Vent pick and brush hang on the shoulder strap of my pouch. So does my strip of pre-lubed .018 pillow ticking patch material.

Pouch contents:

• requisite number of ball for my proposed activity (hunting, a handful. Shooting for fun, 2 or 3 dozen)
• flint wallet with 2 flints and a turn screw

That's it.

Jags worms, etc... ride in my patchbox. If I could find a turnscrew small enough to go in my patchbox  it would go in there too, along with the 2 flints. Then I could drop the flint wallet from my pouch too.

You don't need much. But feel free to carry as much as you want. You'll adjust it to your personal preference as time goes on.

Mike

« Last Edit: February 26, 2022, 12:30:16 PM by Mike from OK »

Offline alacran

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Re: 18th Century Possibles Bag and Accoutrements
« Reply #6 on: February 26, 2022, 03:54:41 PM »
Whiskey would be nice.
A man's rights rest in three boxes: the ballot box, the jury box, and the cartridge box.  Frederick Douglass

Offline Elnathan

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Re: 18th Century Possibles Bag and Accoutrements
« Reply #7 on: February 27, 2022, 02:16:47 AM »
First, welcome to the site! Lots of good info here. Tim and TN may have been tugging your chain just a tad... Perhaps not. A lot is lost when typed vs spoken.

There might be a bit of a disconnect due to the use of the term "possibles bag" for what is evidently a shooting/hunting/gun pouch. Tim and TN's responses make sense if they are thinking in terms of trekking gear that would go into a haversack/wallet ("possible's bag" is a Fur Trade term and is technically anachronistic for the 18th century, I believe.)
A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition -  Rudyard Kipling

Offline Keith Zimmerman

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Re: 18th Century Possibles Bag and Accoutrements
« Reply #8 on: February 27, 2022, 02:56:55 AM »
Wait...."Shoot out of ur pouch."

I thought u needed a big shooting box and the kitchen sink at the range to shoot.  Lol

Offline Mike M

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Re: 18th Century Possibles Bag and Accoutrements
« Reply #9 on: March 01, 2022, 08:54:27 PM »
Ask a silly question ... LOL
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Offline thecapgunkid

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Re: 18th Century Possibles Bag and Accoutrements
« Reply #10 on: March 05, 2022, 09:15:19 PM »
Mikes...with a job this good you'll figure out what to add to it along the way.

Offline Nessmuck

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Re: 18th Century Possibles Bag and Accoutrements
« Reply #11 on: March 06, 2022, 07:34:32 AM »
Whiskey would be nice.


Iam having some as we speak….

Offline Yazel.xring

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Re: 18th Century Possibles Bag and Accoutrements
« Reply #12 on: March 10, 2022, 06:44:08 PM »
Very full but if that’s what you like, then that’s great! Welcome to the forum, enjoy your stay and learning from these guys. It’s a great place to be
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Offline Notchy Bob

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Re: 18th Century Possibles Bag and Accoutrements
« Reply #13 on: March 11, 2022, 01:34:51 AM »
You have a very nice outfit there!

Not a criticism, but just a couple of historical notes...  The metal container with the magnifying lens is actually a tobacco box, and not a tinder box.  Obviously, you can carry anything you like in it, but it was intended to hold tobacco, and the lens was there for lighting one's pipe, although you can certainly use it to start a fire.  There was a nice article about these in a back issue of the Museum of the Fur Trade Quarterly (see "Iron Tobacco Boxes," by Charles Hanson, Jr., The Museum of the Fur Trade Quarterly, Vol. 9, No.1, Spring 1973).  Dr. Hanson indicated tobacco boxes with the burning lens in the lid were being sold by the Hudson's Bay Company and the Northwest Company by the 1790's.  I'm not sure how that will fit in your time frame or location.  Evidently, similar elliptical iron tobacco boxes without the lens were being traded much earlier.  I don't think Dr. Hanson commented on brass as a material for these.  It was my impression that japanned sheet iron was most typical for the types with and without the burning glass.  Ted Cash Mfg. does sell both types (with and without the glass) in a tin plated iron version, although he does call the plain one a "tinder box."  I'm sure one of these would be great for carrying your char cloth, but if it were me, I would probably carry the flint and steel separately.

Carrying a flint and steel in the tobacco box seems logical, but the flint or the hardened steel may scratch the magnifier or knock the lid off the container as it jostles around in your pouch.  At the very least, they will make "clinking" noises unless well padded, and will likely pulverize any charcloth carried in the tin with them.

One other thing is that I have actually been researching some of the archaic terminology, and the pouch you have there would have more likely been called a "shot pouch" in the time and place you have in mind.  The term, possibles, in reference to one's personal belongings, is a 19th century western term, evidently borrowed from the Spanish posibles, meaning a person's goods, property, or means.  Several of the chroniclers of the mountain men of the southern Rockies made reference to the "possible sack," which was a very large container made of buffalo hide, used to store a fellow's extra clothing and other odds and ends, like a razor, extra lead, skins for moccasins, souvenirs, and possibly some bedding.  It was always a possible (singular) sack (not bag). The most common term I've found in the early 19th century literature for that over-the-shoulder container is "bullet pouch," although "shot pouch" was still sometimes used.   As far as I know, the term "possibles bag" is a late 20th century "reenactorism." 

Again, you have some nice kit!  I hope you enjoy it.

Notchy Bob
« Last Edit: March 11, 2022, 02:48:56 AM by Notchy Bob »
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Offline Mike M

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Re: 18th Century Possibles Bag and Accoutrements
« Reply #14 on: March 11, 2022, 03:14:31 AM »
Still learning … Thank You
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Offline Notchy Bob

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Re: 18th Century Possibles Bag and Accoutrements
« Reply #15 on: March 11, 2022, 04:47:26 AM »
Just for discussion, and I guess for comparison, there is the David Cooke collection:



It is my understanding that all of that loose stuff was in the pouch, which appears quite large.  More like a game bag than a shot pouch, but there it is.

Contemporary Makers:  David Cooke's Rifle and Pouch

I don't see the whiskey bottle, but who knows what old Dave really carried in the "salt horn."

Notchy Bob
"Should have kept the old ways just as much as I could, and the tradition that guarded us.  Should have rode horses.  Kept dogs."

from The Antelope Wife

Offline Elnathan

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Re: 18th Century Possibles Bag and Accoutrements
« Reply #16 on: March 11, 2022, 04:38:02 PM »
The caveat with the Cooke bag is that while all that stuff was found in the pouch, that doesn't necessarily mean that Cooke carried in the bag while hunting or even that he put it in the bag himself. A bag of that size, hanging on the wall, makes for a very handy storage place, and it is quite possible that later generations put a lot of Grandpa's old stuff in it to keep it together in one place. I notice that the fishing bobber found its way there but hooks and line didn't...Hard to tell now.
A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition -  Rudyard Kipling

Offline Mike M

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Re: 18th Century Possibles Bag and Accoutrements
« Reply #17 on: March 12, 2022, 01:42:07 AM »
I find the contents very interesting. Whether or not they were carried as a matter of course by Mr. Cooke on a regular basis, is a good point. Being new to flintlocks, the contents of my bag will certainly not be carried all the time, but rather are a collection of eventually necessary items. Perhaps some of the contents are overkill, I'll give you that much. But, the Cooke bag does give a good idea of what soemone would have possessed if they hunted with a flintlock and dog.
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Offline Mike from OK

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Re: 18th Century Possibles Bag and Accoutrements
« Reply #18 on: March 14, 2022, 12:24:58 AM »
The caveat with the Cooke bag is that while all that stuff was found in the pouch, that doesn't necessarily mean that Cooke carried in the bag while hunting or even that he put it in the bag himself. A bag of that size, hanging on the wall, makes for a very handy storage place, and it is quite possible that later generations put a lot of Grandpa's old stuff in it to keep it together in one place. I notice that the fishing bobber found its way there but hooks and line didn't...Hard to tell now.

Makes sense. Right now I am carrying shot for my smoothbore in a small flat horn that fits in the bag. When I take the gun out for a round ball session the shot horn gets taken out and left on the shelf. When I get home and finish cleaning the gun, everything goes back in the bag... Central location, easy to keep everything for that gun together.

Same with my knife/sheath. Both items are stored in the bag. But once I get ready to go shoot the knife and sheath go on my belt.

I would imagine circumstances would also have an effect on what/how much each individual carried in his bag...

A farmer in Massachusetts who decides it's a nice day to go hunting/fowling is probably going to carry less than a longhunter in Kentucky who is going out with a party to bag as many deer as possible, while knowing the Shawnee may be poking about.

It's along the same line as today... If I am taking the day off to go deer hunt at my sister's place, I grab my rifle and 3 to 5 cartridges for a day in the stand. If I am going to my cousin's deer lease in Missouri for a week I take a box of ammo (but still only carry 3-5 at a time) and items to clean/maintain the gun... But in either case I don't take the cleaning rod out to the stand or blind with me. It stays at home or in the truck back at camp.

Mike