Another 'Collectible' powder horn on Ebay

[G. Elsenbeck]

Hmmm, get a good price and the place will be crawling with them!  Another one for our discussion and education.  
http://cgi.ebay.com/1758-BRITISH-ENGRAVED-POWDER-HORN-NEW-YORK-MAP_W0QQitemZ170393370272QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item27ac3c7ea0

I've since sent the seller a couple of questions and will be interesting to hear from them.

Gary

P.s,  John, have you got those appliances yet? 

[art riser]

something is amiss...

[rich pierce]

Couple of unusual features:
1) The plug is a tree branch with the growth rings showing.  This is usually associated with a home-made horn.
2) The wear at the plug and colors there don't seem to match the wear and colors on the rest of the horn
3) The engraving of the towns and map features looks different from the signature part

[WElliott]

Oh, my.  Buyer beware. 

[Beaverman]

Looks way to reproduction to me, along with no wear on the inside of the horn body, will be interesting to read the answers to the questions Gary sent him or her!

[keweenaw]

All I can say is phony as a $3 bill. The stain on the plug looks like it was put on yesterday and no one who would have done that engraving in 1758 would have left a butt end that rough - although it's intentionally made to look rough!

[T.C.Albert]

 
TCA

[rich pierce]

I think it is a real old horn, maybe a blowing horn originally.  It's hard to achieve the patina present on the spout end, etc.  Sometimes these things evolve, I guess.  Generally most old things just get worse and don't improve over time like this one may have done.

[G. Elsenbeck]

I managed to get a quick response from the seller and rather than paste her response I'll have to paraphrase.  First to paint the setting some, the individual and her fiancee have been collecting powder horns for a number of years (maybe 10-15?, my guess) and decided to sell off their 'collection'. 
To my question as to 'who authenicated' she responded ' this piece did come from a well known auction house, so that might be authentication in itself.'  Hmmmm.  She also added 'our pieces have come from auctions all over new england spanning the past few years.'    In her closing remarks she add,  'I know this type of item is subject to a lot of speculation and i understand your concern. I hope you are still inclined to offer.'
Yeeaaahhhh,,,,,,,,,, right.
I get the feeling that this couple have been 'collecting' a few pieces of Americana powder horns as investments and maybe along the way they figured that some of these haven't been the wisest decisions.  Just to illustrate this is a horn listed by her fiancee. 
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270468357592&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

At least this horn acutally looks like a powder horn.  Still a lot of money, but you get free horn damage with this one.  This makes the provenance true,,,,,doesn't it?
Gary

[rich pierce]

That one looks even fresher.

[Cory Joe Stewart]

It is an interesting piece.  As folks have pointed out some elements just do not match.  But I wonder if it could still be old.  For example someone engraved the map, and another person did the cartouche and name at a different time.  Also, the plug could have been a more recent botched restoration job. 

Coryjoe

[JTR]

On the first horn, if it's an old one, I'd bet the original butt end was broken off, and the new plug just that,,, something to close the end.
One thing that I am sure of, is that it won't be coming to my house anytime soon!
John

[Tim Crosby]

 If you have Dresslar's book, The Engraved Powder Horn look at the horn on page 70. Is it just me or is that engraving of New York almost the same as the one on EBay? The bird weather vanes are missing (They do show up on pages 58 and 85) but a couple of the spires are almost identical. There are other  horns with the same number of spires and similar views with wind mill but this one is close.
  This does not prove or disprove anything, it is just an observation.

 Tim C.

[woodsrunner]

Rich, kinda doubt that it could have been a blowing horn for calling in the dogs. These were shaved thin because sound, somehow, was amphlified and carried much further with a thin horn as opposed to one of about regular thickness. I've still got my Grandad's old horn and it's shaved pretty thin. Blow that thing up on top of a mountain on a cold frosty morning at daylight, and you could call dogs in three states and two time zones  . Also have one from Ron Ehlert's collection, and it, also, is shaved pretty thin.

[Cory Joe Stewart]

If you have Dresslar's book, The Engraved Powder Horn look at the horn on page 70. Is it just me or is that engraving of New York almost the same as the one on EBay? The bird weather vanes are missing (They do show up on pages 58 and 85) but a couple of the spires are almost identical. There are other  horns with the same number of spires and similar views with wind mill but this one is close.
  This does not prove or disprove anything, it is just an observation.

 Tim C.

Tim,

I noticed that to.  In fact the one you mentioned is the same one that I usually go by when I am engraving a New York Map horn.  The horse in coat of arms is what I reconized.  Original or not it is an interesting piece. 

Coryjoe