Double base front sight

[Ken G]

For the life of me I cannot think of a reason to have a double base front sight other than the cool factor.  They show up in the Jamestown school, I have seen one on a Gillespie and Jerry Nobles shows one in from the Chattanooga area so the cool factor seems to have come south.  Is this a practice a gun maker copied/learned and continued or more customer request kind of thing?  I searched the archives and came up with nothing although I know we have discussed it before.

All opinions welcome.

[flinchrocket]

Just last week I saw a front sight with three bases. I’ll have to see if I can find that again.

[smylee grouch]

Would the double base make it a little more sturdy? As less prone to bend front or back over. 

[Bob Roller]

Would the double base make it a little more sturdy? As less prone to bend front or back over. 

Probably, but I always thought it was someone demonstrating filing skills.

Bob Roller

[jim alford]

Having made and installed a total of three double base front sights, my view on the matter is that it is mostly showing off. Kind of a look what I can do thing. They are kind of a pain to do, but they do look pretty cool when done. I don't believe there is any mechanical advantage by having the double base. Having blathered on about thm long enough, I will say that the third one was easier to do than the first.

[kutter]

Can't you just inlet two separate bases into the bbl.
File both down together flat and to the surface of the top flat of the bbl
Or leave the bases a bit high of the bbl flat and groove the bases for the blade,
..Get really fancy and scallop the bases gently from the outer edge up to the notch for the blade on each side of the notch.

Never remove the bases from the bbl. Leave them right in place while fitting, shaping and if you notch them for the blade

Then soft solder the separate blade straight across both of the bases at the same time.
Touch up any solder excess & lightly polish it up as needed.

Clean up the area of the bbl around it and brown it all as one.

You'll look like a Handfeilemeister

[Stoner creek]

This is one of those “I can do this and you can’t “ things. Total waste of good shop time in my opinion.

[Ezra]

From a technical standpoint it is quite probably an unecessary waste of time.  However, I find them asthetically pleasing from an artistic point of view.  YMMV.

Ez

[Bob Gerard]

Reminds me of a chewing gum commercial... can you guess which one? 

[Daryl]

I've with the show-off thinking crowd. Totally useless.
Why have such a LONG front site in the first place?
 It's all style. Looks cool, so why not for someone willing to pay for it.
Carving and extra inlays come to mind along that line of thinking, too.

[Elnathan]

Just last week I saw a front sight with three bases. I’ll have to see if I can find that again.

Dennis just posted pictures in the thread "Rifles with a lot of drop:" https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=62102.msg704062#msg704062

[mountainman70]

Funny you should ask. I built a smr in 2014 with a double base, and my current build, the chestnut smr ,has three bases. Why----cause I could. More trouble than worth, but cool to me. Then a week later, Dennis posted the rifle with 6inch drop, and ,low and Behold, a real oldtime three base sight. Made me so happy i had to go make a toddy.
Almost got the Shoutin Spirit.
 I will tell yall, the center base has the blade soldered on, the other two not yet,until I get it sighted in, then I will solder them.
 I will post pics of both my guns tomorrow sometime. Too tired now, but I really enjoy this thread.
Have a great evenin fellows. Best regards, ,Dave F

[flinchrocket]

Thanks Elnathan

[archer829]

I've with the show-off thinking crowd. Totally useless.
Why have such a LONG front site in the first place?
 It's all style. Looks cool, so why not for someone willing to pay for it.
Carving and extra inlays come to mind along that line of thinking, too.

Kind of what I was thinking.  Wire inlays, carving, engraved metal all have no practical function but they're all over our flintlocks.  This style of sight seems no different.  Someone somewhere at some time probably had a little extra time on their hands, did one on a whim, and suddenly it was the thing to have in that area.....

[Birddog6]

I’ve built several with double dovetail front sights. No reasons other than to make
it different, & to see if I could do it.

[jim alford]

For me, the whole process of building these things is a huge waste of time. That is the whole point!

[Fly Navy]

OK, I've seen 2 and 3 dovetail front sights. Who will be the first to do 4?

[alacran]

Like most things in long-rifle building, nothing is new, and most everything originated in Germany.
In Wolfe's Jaeger book there are two rifles with two dovetails. The first one is by an unknown maker made in the second half of the 18th century.
The second one shown, is by C. Wilhelm Freund in 1778. The description of the front sight, says that it is made of brass, but it looks like it is gold plate. Truly a sight to behold.

[Dphariss]

Anyone ever see a photo of a German Jaeger with a heart shaped bore? Same thing. No practical use. Unless one wants to be a master in the guild and this was far from easy regardless. In the US it was for “cool factor” I assume.

[rich pierce]

Anyone ever see a photo of a German Jaeger with a heart shaped bore? Same thing. No practical use. Unless one wants to be a master in the guild and this was far from easy regardless. In the US it was for “cool factor” I assume.

I heard the “ball” sings a love song as it heads downrange.

[Hungry Horse]

Being a gun builder that doesn’t have every modern tool known to man, l understand the backwoods gunsmiths thinking. I suspect that the front sights long, low, profile, and its relative slimness make it vulnerable to damage and hard to cut a dovetail for that doesn’t cant the sight one way or the other. Two dovetails not only make it easier to get the sight straight, but also give a long slim sight blade support and make them less likely to being snagged and pulled off.

Hungry Horse

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Can't you just inlet two separate bases into the bbl.
File both down together flat and to the surface of the top flat of the bbl
Or leave the bases a bit high of the bbl flat and groove the bases for the blade,
..Get really fancy and scallop the bases gently from the outer edge up to the notch for the blade on each side of the notch.

Never remove the bases from the bbl. Leave them right in place while fitting, shaping and if you notch them for the blade

Then soft solder the separate blade straight across both of the bases at the same time.
Touch up any solder excess & lightly polish it up as needed.

Clean up the area of the bbl around it and brown it all as one.

You'll look like a Handfeilemeister

Soft solder is no way (for me at least) to attach a sight blade to a dovetail base, so matter how many of them you use.  Soft solder isn't strong enough.  Here's a case in point:  Many years ago I was at a small shoot in Ft. St. John BC.  While loading, my rifle was standing against a railing and a small child accidentally kicked my rifle over and it fell, landing on the front sight and bent it over flat with the barrel.  I simply used a pair of pliers to bend the sight vertical again, and carried on shooting.  If that had been soft solder rather than silver, I wouldn't have been able to salvage that sight.  While we're at it, I also pin the blade to the base and rivet the pin into a countersink in the sight's underside too.  So by the time I'm done, the sight is one solid piece of metal.

[Bob Roller]

OK, I've seen 2 and 3 dovetail front sights. Who will be the first to do 4?

Is there anything in antiquity like this? I have seen some Mike Cox rifles with this double dove tail the he made for Dave Milem.
Dave passed away last week at age 84.He was a good customer and wanted every lock I would make and had a good collection
of those I made,
Bob Roller

[David Rase]

I have 2 thoughts on the topic of double dovetailed front sights.  My observation is that double dovetailed front sight bases are most prominent on Appalachian rifles.  The double dovetail could be utilitarian as it provides support for both the front and the rear of the sight blade preventing it from side to side bending.  On the other hand, it could be purely decorative.  If you look at southern rifles you see a lot of fancy iron work, i.e. over the comb tangs, long heel plates etc.  These features serve very little function and are an expression of the rifle smiths skills in his craft. Appalachian gunsmiths showed off their blacksmithing skills and decorated the rifles they built with ornamental ironwork.  Northern gunsmiths used carving, engraving and brass and silver inlays to show off their skills.
David Rase     

[Ezra]

Thanks Elnathan

I like it, impressive.

Ez