Author Topic: French Trade Gun progress  (Read 2343 times)

Offline Bob Gerard

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1336
    • Powder Horns and Such
French Trade Gun progress
« on: March 11, 2022, 03:38:13 AM »
I've been working in the French "Type D" trade gun kit from Clay Smith for the last few weeks.
I finished the assembly of it today and next comes the fun part- giving this gun some personality  :)
I will be taking off lots more wood and doing some carving, lock panels and something behind the tang. It will be a nice, light fowler soon.







Offline Daryl

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15788
Re: French Trade Gun progress
« Reply #1 on: March 11, 2022, 03:42:37 AM »
Looking pretty good. I was thinking the forend looked a little "heavy".
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V

Offline Bob Gerard

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1336
    • Powder Horns and Such
Re: French Trade Gun progress
« Reply #2 on: March 11, 2022, 04:08:17 AM »
It feels very thick compared to the Pecatonica I just did. But I hope to thin it down quite a bit.

Offline Mike Brooks

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13415
    • Mike Brooks Gunmaker
Re: French Trade Gun progress
« Reply #3 on: March 11, 2022, 05:25:25 PM »
It feels very thick compared to the Pecatonica I just did. But I hope to thin it down quite a bit.
It has a built in architectural problem. The web between the barrel and ramrod  is too thick. You can hide this by exposing more than half the barrel and ramrod.
NEW WEBSITE! www.mikebrooksflintlocks.com
Say, any of you boys smithies? Or, if not smithies per se, were you otherwise trained in the metallurgic arts before straitened circumstances forced you into a life of aimless wanderin'?

Offline Bob Gerard

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1336
    • Powder Horns and Such
Re: French Trade Gun progress
« Reply #4 on: March 11, 2022, 08:04:24 PM »
Mike, yes I noticed the web was thicker than other ones. I deepened the ramrod channel a little to help a bit.

Offline Bob Gerard

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1336
    • Powder Horns and Such
Re: French Trade Gun progress
« Reply #5 on: March 14, 2022, 03:54:08 AM »
I got to work on the lock panels today. The fronts are done.
I don't think that with the downward sweep of this lock plate that I will be able to do a "beaver Tail" apron on the rear tail of the panels and have it look right. It would be nearly at the bottom of the wrist.
But I will do some carving around the barrel tang.









Offline Mike Brooks

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13415
    • Mike Brooks Gunmaker
Re: French Trade Gun progress
« Reply #6 on: March 14, 2022, 04:08:51 PM »
You left your lock panels way to wide, fix that then redo your moldings. And put the beaver tails on centered on the wrist. Don't worry about where the German lock tail points.  I'll  only point this out once more....expose more than half of the barrel and ram rod.  AND, please refer to originals.
 
NEW WEBSITE! www.mikebrooksflintlocks.com
Say, any of you boys smithies? Or, if not smithies per se, were you otherwise trained in the metallurgic arts before straitened circumstances forced you into a life of aimless wanderin'?

Offline Bob Gerard

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1336
    • Powder Horns and Such
Re: French Trade Gun progress
« Reply #7 on: March 15, 2022, 12:12:28 AM »
You left your lock panels way to wide, fix that then redo your moldings. And put the beaver tails on centered on the wrist. Don't worry about where the German lock tail points.  I'll  only point this out once more....expose more than half of the barrel and ram rod.  AND, please refer to originals.
Thanks Mike. I really appreciate your guidance here.
I did get the barrel walls of the forestock lowered to just below mid-way. It does make a big difference. I will be working on the ramrod area next.
The lock panels were really big as you noted. It struck me more today than yesterday. I suppose stepping away from the thing and coming back to it helps give a more objective perspective. I worked on both panels and moldings today and think they look quite a bit better.
The carving behind the lock plate was a real challenge. I did look through photos of historical originals and tried to see if I could do anything similar. The lock shape just threw a monkey wrench into anything I tried. I saw one example that I thought might work and laid it out on the stock. But while carving the molding I felt like I was about to screw it up big time because I didnt like it at all. So, I went with plan 'b' of doing a simple blending in of the lock panel to the wrist. I saw a few examples of this done on originals so I think it should be OK. I will probably add some more bevel to give it more definition.
I did a bit of molding behind the barrel tang because that area seemed so heavy. It helped thin out the wrist nicely.  I also  added a little molding around the rear entry pipe which allowed me to thin down the belly of the forestock between the trigger guard and the entry pipe, and it did help a lot.  Finally after six hours I got frazzled and had to stop for today. Its really enjoyable work but dang it's exhausting.






Offline Clark Badgett

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2257
  • Oklahoma
Re: French Trade Gun progress
« Reply #8 on: March 15, 2022, 01:21:37 AM »
Your beaver tail molding is a bit English looking. The French originals I have pictures of generally show a molding that follows closely to the straight and rounded or thumbnail shaped tang, with a finial that could be in various styles. You could get away without anything to the rear of the lock panel molding, there are a couple of trade fusils without anything there. I need to look through my copy of Gladysz's book again.
Psalms 144

Offline Mike Brooks

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13415
    • Mike Brooks Gunmaker
Re: French Trade Gun progress
« Reply #9 on: March 15, 2022, 02:16:38 AM »
You can put those beaver tails on yet. The lock panels look great now. Very brave, many people wouldn't have gone back in and thined them down after carving the lock moldings.
NEW WEBSITE! www.mikebrooksflintlocks.com
Say, any of you boys smithies? Or, if not smithies per se, were you otherwise trained in the metallurgic arts before straitened circumstances forced you into a life of aimless wanderin'?

Offline Bob Gerard

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1336
    • Powder Horns and Such
Re: French Trade Gun progress
« Reply #10 on: March 15, 2022, 06:06:12 PM »
Thank you Clark and Mike. I think this one will be much better with your help, even with the challenge of the wide web that Mike pointed out. As for the apron around the barrel tang- I suppose it's just a design I have been using a lot with tho other guns I've made. It is reminiscent of the tang molding on a Bess though!

Offline Craig Wilcox

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2528
Re: French Trade Gun progress
« Reply #11 on: March 15, 2022, 07:46:56 PM »
Really like that stick of wood, very nice grain, and looks quite "carveable".

Working with a piece of English walnut for a double 10-bore restock.  Very hard, tough wood!  And as the original. c. 1850, had no carving, I doubt I carve this one.  It will get a checkered wrist though.
Craig Wilcox
We are all elated when Dame Fortune smiles at us, but remember that she is always closely followed by her daughter, Miss Fortune.

Offline Bob Gerard

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1336
    • Powder Horns and Such
Re: French Trade Gun progress
« Reply #12 on: March 15, 2022, 11:42:01 PM »
Sounds like desert !

Offline Bob Gerard

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1336
    • Powder Horns and Such
Re: French Trade Gun progress
« Reply #13 on: March 15, 2022, 11:51:18 PM »
I believe that the fusil is ready for some finish now :) 
I removed a lot of wood from it, mostly from the forestock area. Also did some simple carving on it to form the lock moldings and also around the barrel tang and rear ramrod pipe.  It certainly feels comfortable at the shoulder and is really light, 6.5 pounds now.
For the finish my plan is first pop the grain with some Boiled Linseed Oil. I may go with many more applications of it and hand rub them in, or perhaps go with a wiping varnish. Not sure as yet.







photo set up online





Offline Mike Brooks

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13415
    • Mike Brooks Gunmaker
Re: French Trade Gun progress
« Reply #14 on: March 16, 2022, 12:03:06 AM »
My last choice of finish would be BLO.
NEW WEBSITE! www.mikebrooksflintlocks.com
Say, any of you boys smithies? Or, if not smithies per se, were you otherwise trained in the metallurgic arts before straitened circumstances forced you into a life of aimless wanderin'?

Offline Mike Brooks

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13415
    • Mike Brooks Gunmaker
Re: French Trade Gun progress
« Reply #15 on: March 16, 2022, 12:07:19 AM »
I suppose you'll want to know why.  It has no redeeming qualities  as a finish for a walnut stock. Not water proof and it tends to turn walnut black. I have a schuetzen rifle with a spectacular piece of crotch grain walnut. You'd never know it as it is black from the BLO.
NEW WEBSITE! www.mikebrooksflintlocks.com
Say, any of you boys smithies? Or, if not smithies per se, were you otherwise trained in the metallurgic arts before straitened circumstances forced you into a life of aimless wanderin'?

Offline Bob Gerard

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1336
    • Powder Horns and Such
Re: French Trade Gun progress
« Reply #16 on: March 16, 2022, 12:11:25 AM »
I know it will darken wood a lot from using it on my instruments. I kind of like that. With a coat of wiping varnish over it (after several months of drying of course).
How about Tried and True Danish Oil for a finish? (I bought a can after Mike Gahagan said he uses it, but didnt try it yet)

Offline Mike Brooks

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13415
    • Mike Brooks Gunmaker
Re: French Trade Gun progress
« Reply #17 on: March 16, 2022, 12:24:36 AM »
This is the schuetzen with the crotch grain and blo
 The Danish oil would probably be better than the blo,but I have never used it. I usually use chamber's finish  or formbys tung oil finish.





free download coffee images
NEW WEBSITE! www.mikebrooksflintlocks.com
Say, any of you boys smithies? Or, if not smithies per se, were you otherwise trained in the metallurgic arts before straitened circumstances forced you into a life of aimless wanderin'?

Offline Bob Gerard

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1336
    • Powder Horns and Such
Re: French Trade Gun progress
« Reply #18 on: March 16, 2022, 12:41:03 AM »
My goodness Rich that's a beautifully carved stock! I cant imagine your reaction as it darkened so...
That is the tone that I was hoping for on this fusil, though.
(Chambers finish is now on my got-to-get list now. Didnt know Formby's TO was a good option.)


Offline Mike Brooks

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13415
    • Mike Brooks Gunmaker
Re: French Trade Gun progress
« Reply #19 on: March 16, 2022, 01:09:35 AM »
I didn't do that  stock  , it was that way when I bought it
 I plan to refinish it this coming winter.
NEW WEBSITE! www.mikebrooksflintlocks.com
Say, any of you boys smithies? Or, if not smithies per se, were you otherwise trained in the metallurgic arts before straitened circumstances forced you into a life of aimless wanderin'?

Offline Daryl

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15788
Re: French Trade Gun progress
« Reply #20 on: March 16, 2022, 05:31:02 AM »
Standing shooting rifle with a reason for the hook.
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V

Offline Bob Gerard

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1336
    • Powder Horns and Such
Re: French Trade Gun progress
« Reply #21 on: March 16, 2022, 06:03:23 AM »
I think the modern ones have an adjustable cheek piece. But that one is a piece of sculpture. When Mike refinishes it that burl walnut will sing!