Ferguson Rifle

[wormey]

An "Antique" Ferguson rifle just sold at Simpsons Ltd. for $2500!!   Can`t believe the folks at Simpson could be that dumb.  It is obviously not an antique, but even as a reproduction somebody got a bargain!   

[Longknife]

You can still but it!!!! (for a little bit more)

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/926925508

[heinz]

No doubt in my mind that is a repro on GB.  Caveat Emptor

[wormey]

For what it`s worth, there are only 5 original Ferguson ordinance rifles known.  1 is in the Milwaukee Public Museum, 1 at Morristown National Park, 1 at West Point, and 2 in the Smithsonian.  This rifle is a product of the Rifle Shoppe and appears to be well made although in rather poor condition from looking at
the touchole area and the missing nosecap.  The original posting said the bore was "fair" whatever that means.  Looks to be salvageable, but not at $5500.
Wormey

[120RIR]

The one in Milwaukee and at Morristown are the only two surviving actual "ordnance" Fergusons.  The others were not part of that run and I believe were private purchase.  There is supposedly a third actual ordnance Ferguson out there somewhere but it's only rumored.  Regardless, the one on Gun Broker appears to just need a little TLC.  It is, however, a bit "chunky" but with a little work it might clean up nice.  As for how it shoots and whether or not you'll lose your eyebrows from a loose-fitting plug, well, your guess is as good as anyone else's.

[smart dog]

Hi,
Boy, somebody really butchered that TRS Ferguson kit.  They got so many details wrong.  Here is what it should look like although I did not use a TRS precarved stock, rather it was made using dimensions from the Morristown rifle.

[120RIR]

Okay...I suppose "butchered" is probably more descriptive, and accurate.  In the right hands it could certainly be revived and vastly improved though.  For reference and your viewing pleasure, here are a few shots of the late Ernie Cowan's bench copy of the Morristown rifle with a bronze plug.  Ernie loved the darker stock colors on whatever rifles he made which more often than not I don't believe was accurate.  That's about my only criticism of his work.

[mbriggs]

The late Warren Moore owned a Ferguson rifle and donated it to the Greensboro  Historical Museum.  This is the same Museum John Murphy left his Confederate rifle and carbine collection with. Both are now in storage

Michael Briggs

[smart dog]

Hi,
Yeah, the whole bronze plug thing.  According to Cowan, the plug had to be bronze or it did not work right except that Ricky Roberts and Brian Brown have been proving for years that a steel plug works just fine.  I don't think Cowan was aware that the 2nd surviving ordnance rifle in Milwaukee has a steel plug.  There is a civilian Ferguson in the royal collection with a silver alloy plug and I am aware of another civilian Ferguson with some bronze alloy.  However, I've also examined several other civilian Fergusons, all with steel plugs.  So the whole plug thing is a red herring.  Also many folks making the TRS parts sets don't realize the ordnance rifle is much daintier than you would guess from photos.  Cowan's gun is a bit bulky in the butt compared with the original and I made the same mistake when I first built mine.  Then I had the chance to handle the original in Morristown and realized my mistakes.  I went back and trimmed down my copy.  The photos I show above are of the slimmed down and correctly colored rifle consistent with the Morristown gun.  Another thing to realize is that Cowan's and my versions are made better than the originals, which were hurried through production.  The stock work on the originals was much cruder.

dave   

[Nailcreek]

The Milwaukee Public Museum rifle is also in storage for some reason.  I did try to see it in person, living in the area, but no Bueno.  It's my understanding that TRS rifle is patterned off this rifle.

[120RIR]

I'd have to go back and review Ernie's writings but I'm not sure he firmly committed one way or another concerning steel vs bronze plugs.  I think he merely speculated and given that other materials were used in civilian Ferguson's, maybe Ferguson himself was experimenting at the time to see if one material had an advantage over others.  As for the stock, where exactly did you slenderize yours?  Regarding the color, yeah, I wish Ernie hadn't done his usual dark stain but regardless, it's a beautiful piece of work and as noted, much better finished than the two known surviving original rifles!

[smart dog]

Hi,
Look at the 5th and sixth photos I posted.  The stock is thinner throughout the lock area, and butt stock.  I had to slim down my comb quite a bit and take more wood off the fore stock.  The vertical dimensions were fine because they are determined largely by the breech, but I had to slim the gun a lot in width.  If you read Keller and Cowan's essay on shooting the Ferguson in DeWitt Bailey's book "British Military Flintlock Rifles" they describe their version of the Ferguson as the only correct copy and they go on to describe the bronze plug as the secret to its performance.  Their statements are presented as matter of fact, not humble speculations, and are typical of all writings I've read by Cowan and Keller.  Ironically, Ricky Roberts and Brian Brown demonstrate much better performance of the rifle than Cowan and Keller despite having a steel plug.  I've have also greatly surpassed the performance described by Keller and Cowan with my steel plugged Ferguson.  Their assertion that the bronze plug was critical for the rifle to function properly is simply not true.

dave 

[Vulcan]

Dave, I've always admired your projects. If you don't mind me asking, what are the stock dimensions as far as lop, drop at comb and drop at heel? The rifle has such attractive lines that knowing the numbers helps me gain a better understanding of the overall lines of the gun and proportion.

Many thanks.

[smart dog]

Hi Vulcan and thanks,

The LOP is 13 3/4". drop at comb is 2", and drop at heel is 2 3/4". One of the odd features on the Ferguson is the vent hole is 1 1/4" in front of the breech, whereas on most guns that distance is about 5/8".  Because of that extra length, some folk's attempts I've seen at building these guns from a blank were really awkwardly shaped. 

dave