aqua fortis dilution

[msw]

i am contemplating using aqua fortis on an ash stock.  can i dilute it, and if so, how do i do this?
also, should i use Permalyn, or Tried & True?
any guidance (except to take up knitting) is appreciated.

Thanks!

[Mike Brooks]

i am contemplating using aqua fortis on an ash stock.  can i dilute it, and if so, how do i do this?
also, should i use Permalyn, or Tried & True?
any guidance (except to take up knitting) is appreciated.

Thanks!

I'd use kibler's iron nitrate and Chambers finish.

[Dewster]

What Mike said.

[Jim Kibler]

Iron nitrate looks great on ash.  I wouldn't worry about diluting it.  As far as finish goes, it's not so much about what you use, but how you use it.  There are a lot of good choices.  A few are Tried and True Oil Varnish, Permalyn Sealer, Southerland Wells Tung Oil, Chambers Oil and Minwax Antique Oil.  I'm sure there are many others as well.

Some dig in and have strong opinions about finish, but You can make a variety work well.  I would love to have those individuals try to name the finish used on rifles I've built.  I'm pretty sure this would be surprising.

Jim

[Fly Navy]

^ well do tell. A lot of us are all ears.

[Chocktaw Brave]

That’s Good news to hear about the final finish. I don’t have a great selection to choose from up here.

[smylee grouch]

If a guy was to use a diluted aqua fortis solution you should probably dilute it properly, acid into water or is it water into acid?

[rich pierce]

We often use the term aquafortis to mean ferric nitrate. Aquafortis (nitric acid) without iron saturation does little to enhance maple. If asking how to dilute a solution of iron-saturated dilute nitric acid, just add water.

[James Rogers]

This is what one can get on hard sugar maple with a 1 to 5 aquafortis solution (no iron, just nitric acid and water). I can't offhand remember the strength percentage of the nitric at the moment. This one is by Jim Hash and is in Three Centuries of Tradition.
I have used this same mixture successfully on English walnut.

[Metalshaper]

If a guy was to use a diluted aqua fortis solution you should probably dilute it properly, acid into water or is it water into acid?

water into acid, prepare to be blasted!    acid into water, just like you ought'r

Respect Always
Metalshaper/Jonathan

[Dphariss]

i am contemplating using aqua fortis on an ash stock.  can i dilute it, and if so, how do i do this?
also, should i use Permalyn, or Tried & True?
any guidance (except to take up knitting) is appreciated.

Thanks!

Actually its not Aqua Fortis but a solution made with Aqua Fortis. Its actually Ferric Nitrate.
I never dilute it. And be careful of some store bought versions. At least one is adulterated with hydrochloric and will over time turn the stock very dark. BTDT. Best to buy Ferric Nitrate crystals and mix your own with distilled water, testing it on scraps until its strong enough. MUCH safer than making it with acid and nails or wire. Color is identical in all respects according to a test done by a member of our GUnmakers Guild.

[Dphariss]

I also avoid synthetic finishes or those with solvents other that turpentine added.  At one time was wet sanding with a “Tung oil” varnish on Sharps stocks. Never again will I use a solvent laden stock finish. When you contemplate buying a stock finish look up the MSDS (Material Safety Data Sheet) it might surprise you. Most of this stuff, other than Chambers and I think Tried and True, are variations of stuff sold is hardware stores and lumber yards to people who don’t know any better.
Finally I can usually tell a synthetic finish just by looking at it. Just because Bivens, back in the 70’s, adopted a synthetic finish for the Centennial rifles does not mean I have to.
Since  this stuff is so low in anything but solvents it takes a LOT of coats to make a finish and lot of fumes inhaled in the process. They “dry” by solvent evaporation.
Like this from Brownells site

[Scota4570]

I have used dozens of finishes over the years.  As previously mentioned it more about how you use it than the name on the can.  For now I am using hardware store spar varnish.  I dilute it significantly with turpentine and add a dollop of japan dryer.  The finish is stored in a screw top Tupperware for the one job.  It lasts a few days on the bench.

 I apply it with a wad of ladies stocking material.  IT has no lint.  It holds the finish but is not absorbent.  I apply a generous coat first pass and wipe off the excess after about 10 minuets.  I scotch brite between coats.  I then apply one thin coat per day.  I takes me about four days to get a slightly built up finish with filled grain.   

The ferric nitrate I use is:
https://www.amazon.com/HiMedia-GRM755-500G-Ferric-Nitrate-Nonahydrate/dp/B07VZMTM9C
I put a teaspoon in a cup of tap water. 

IF you use to much ferric nitrate you will get a flocky rust build up on the surface.  That comes off easily.   It is hard to do it wrong.   

[Chocktaw Brave]

Amazon won’t ship that to me. I might have to use the powder style and mix it myself.

[Karl Kunkel]

https://www.sciencecompany.com/Ferric-Nitrate-100g-P6384.aspx

[Scota4570]

Amazon won’t ship that to me. I might have to use the powder style and mix it myself.

That is the dry crystals.  It will turn to wet sludge over time because it is hydroscopic.  Funny about the restrictions.  It is useless as an oxidizer for illegal activities. 

Jut buy it wherever you can. 

[msw]

thank you, one and all, for the responses ... i am not now smarter, but a good bit less dumb.

emboldened, i tried some aquafortis (Track of the Wolf that's been in my basement a long time).  Regrettably, when i went to blush it with my handy dandy (el-cheap-o) heat gun, it went from the weird green to scorched in about a half second.  I tried a different spot at a lower setting ... same result ... then i went to the barrel channel and tried a hair drier, and it wouldn't blush at all.

In my frustration, i forgot that you're not supposed to do that, and now there's a light spot of rust on the underside of the barrel ... wisdom is gained from experience, and experience is gained from bad decisions ... so how come i'm not the smartest guy in the world?

So, the 'dumb question:'  can aquafortis go stale?  Is what i'm using past it's 'sell by' date?  Or am I doing something to cause this problem ... unfortunately, i don't have any scrap ash, and i'm pretty much out of spots where whatever i do won't show.

I'm about to give up on this aquafortis project altogether and just use some stain.  (and swearing ... lots and lots of swearing ...
 

[rich pierce]

I let it dry overnight after wetting with AQF. Barrel channels are very hard to use for testing because of the thin top edge. Some things are easier shown than explained. I keep the heat gun moving to avoid scorching while getting the wood too hot to hold.

[Jim Filipski]

I never dilute it either.   When you are making it you reach a point that the iron content super saturated the acid and all reaction bubbling stops! That is Ferric Nitrate ( What was called Aqua Fortis back then) it is actually a bit viscous. Actually, I never tested the PH, but it should be close to neutral or a bit acidic based on my knowledge of chemistry. It only bubbles slightly with a neutraizing wash of concentrated wood ash in water!