Copper mounted Soddy Daisy??

[Hunterdude]

I attended the Living History show in Kalamazoo Michigan Saturday, I saw a rather pleasing architecture Soddy Daisy mountain rifle there. The odd thing (to me) was the butt plate, side plate and trigger guard where cast in a very red color Copper. I stopped to inquire, and the builder was at the opposite end of the table and very busy, but the other man at the table told me the Copper was Historically Correct.....I can not say Copper Castings  "never" happened on SMR's but I am wondering out loud if such a thing Really IS considered historically correct?
   I do love the color of Copper and if it had a nice patina I think it would have looked pretty Nifty!
   I believe the builder wanted the Copper to really pop so he had abraided the castings with some rather coarse sandpaper and about 1/3 of the castings showed rather coarse scratches of "new metal"... all that very rose Copper new metal gave a look that was....somewhat shocking (for me) to look at. If only the sharp corners and high spots had been worn thin simulating wear against clothing and regular use, I think I might have liked it more.
   I am now kicking myself for not taking photos of the rifle as the patina could be adjusted to my taste.
   Does anyone have photos of a Copper mounted SMR, or thoughts about historical correctness?
   The castings did not look anything like Bronze, and was more "red" than a 1 cent coin, I have heard people refure to this metal as "Rose" Copper, but am not well versed in all types of Copper alloy.

[oldtravler61]

  Hunterdude I am by no means an expert. But of the dozens of original southern rifles and of course Soddies. ( Which are my favorite style. ) I have looked at and handled. Never seen one before. But of course that doesn't mean it couldn't happen.
  But one thing I am sure of. Facts on anything you intend to purchase or show intent. Change greatly from one side of the table to the other.
  Oldtravler

[t.caster]

H-dude, that was copper you observed on Dennis Priddy's rifle. I can't speak to the historic correctness of it's use in Tennessee, but it is popular here among contemporary builders in Michigan with our rich history of copper mining in the U.P.  He built that one for his daughter, who has won many shoots with it! I believe the parts were forged, not cast.

[Ken G]

The first rule I learned for any SMR is to never use the word "Never" but I can't say I have every seen a copper mounted Soddy or any SMR. I've never seen a brass mounted Soddy either but I hear there is one out there.  Sadly I do not have a photo.   

With that said..........TN does have what's called the Copper Basin located in Polk county.  Copper was found in that area in 1843 according to a Google search.  That's not that terribly far from Soddy. I'm absolutely certain copper was and still is available for Moonshine stills in the area.  LOL

Cheers,

Ken

[Hunterdude]

H-dude, that was copper you observed on Dennis Priddy's rifle. I can't speak to the historic correctness of it's use in Tennessee, but it is popular here among contemporary builders in Michigan with our rich history of copper mining in the U.P.  He built that one for his daughter, who has won many shoots with it! I believe the parts were forged, not cast.

Thank you for the history of this rifle! The show was very busy and I was regret not talking to the actual builder.
   My sister's son attends collage up near the Copper harbour area in upper Michigan, he has hiked/explore some abandoned copper mines and found a Copper nugget larger than a football.
   With only very minor adjustments to the Copper patina,(personal taste) the rifle would be something I would be proud to own, correct or not, I am happy to have had the opportunity to view it in person.

[G_T]

IMHO, I doubt copper was used much if at all historically on longrifles. Copper is softer than brass, and has plenty of oxidation issues. It is gummy to work with, clogging files and sandpaper. I've used copper in making jewelry. Pretty when done, but not as much fun to do. Takes more time than any other metal. I do not think copper would fare all that well out in the weather much. Not sure why an inferior material would be used for parts like a trigger guard. If cast, well, need to control oxygen access when casting. Zn normally takes care of that for brass. Zn scavages the oxygen faster than the Cu. If brazed or cast, the copper would come out not all that far from annealed. Annealed copper is very soft. Amazingly easily bent in the hands soft. Enough work hardening and using a bit of extra thickness can solve that, but why? Using an alloy rather than pure copper can solve that (brass being the historic example, bronze being another).

Gerald

[Eric Kettenburg]

Soddy stuff is quite a ways removed from my area of research but I sincerely doubt anyone historically used straight copper for any kind of serious gun mounting.  I might buy into lock bolt washers, or maybe a simple sheet butt covering.  But a guard?  A pipe?  No matter how 'work hardened' I suspect it would still get mashed.  I'd be more inclined to accept that historically, in copper-rich areas, brass may have been cast with a much higher copper percentage that would yield a red color (i.e. red brass).  This would be much stronger and more suitable for gun mounting in specific situations.

[Hungry Horse]

 If it was used I’m sure it wouldn’t be cast solid copper. I suspect it would be either fabricated like the iron fittings on most SMR guns, or sheet plated like some southern guns.

Hungry Horse

[Hunterdude]

I would say the distinct color of Copper is the only property that might be desired by some tastes, Copper would have relatively poor wear qualitys.
   Another possible concern is Copper can have a reaction when in direct contact with wood??
   I have some airplane buddy's that love to tell a story about a small private grass landing strip. The landing area was not large and over the years, Legend has it that tall trees grew at the propery line at the very end of the strip, no amount of negotiations would convince the owner of the trees to cut them down (just 50 feet) of them in the fence row. The pilots where having more difficulty safely clearing the trees with each passing year.
   Legend has it that "someone" pounded a ring of closely spaced pure copper nails around the base of the trees that where endangering the aircraft, and all the trees had blown down in stormy weather within 1.5 years of the Copper nail treatment.
   I can neither confirm or deny the story, but if there is any truth to the story? It would seem that Copper "could" have a reaction with wood? The guy that told the story said the base of the trees showed significant signs of wood decay.

[Frozen Run]

Is using a copper rivet to attach a nose cap on longrifles a modern thing, and if so what were more period appropriate methods of attaching it? Thank you.

[bnewberry]

Interesting topic. I missed that rifle at the show. Just too much to see. I wish I had taken pictures of a few things myself!

[AZshot]

This Soddy has a copper ramrod entry pipe, but I figure it was added later.

[Ken G]

AZshot,

Now that's just not right to only post one picture of her.  Please, please start another thread and post a few pics of that beauty. 

Cheers,
Ken

[Craig Wilcox]

For rifles, copper does make a nice rivet for the muzzle cap.  And I do like the contrast when I use the copper rivets when putting scales on a knife handle.  Easy stuff to work with.  I do have a few 2" squares for practicing engraving.

[oldtravler61]

  Hunter the person who built the rifle. Also has built air guns that Lewis an Clark took west. He is an amazing craftsman an he likes to discuss firearms.   Oldtravler

[B.Barker]

There is a NC rifle with copper rammer pipes. I've never seen any other furniture made from copper though.

[Ken G]

AZShot,

Apologies.  I found where you have already shared the pics.  I saved the set to my Soddy file and forgot.  Must have killed those memory cells back in the 70s. 

Thanks for sharing.
Ken

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