Author Topic: A lesson learned (Read 2832 times)

MuskratMike · « **on:** March 30, 2022, 03:19:46 AM »

In all my years of shooting these front-stuffers I have only "dry balled" 5 or 6 times, all in 50 caliber or larger rifles. I was always able to either pull the ball or blow out using my shop compressor. Today I had a brain @$#% and dry balled my .32 flintlock. I had
a ball puller attachment for my range rod. Even after adding fluid down the barrel to soften the fouling and two big strong guys pulling there was no way the ball and patch were coming out. Ran my compressor up to 150 psi to blow it out. You guessed it, no such luck. Finally I pulled the barrel and unbreeched it. What I found was the puller (correct size for a .32) actually expanded the pure lead ball making it even harder to pull. Yes I have a T-handled range rod and tried pulling it from a rafter. Lesson learned smaller is harder not easier to pull. "Powder, patch then brother ball or it won't shoot at all"

Levy · « **Reply #1 on:** March 30, 2022, 04:05:25 AM »

Mike, somewhere in the past, I've seen a double ended attachment that has an appropriate size drill on one end and a matching/appropriate screw on the other end. It is supposed to eliminate expanding the ball and preventing it from removal. James Levy

MuskratMike · « **Reply #2 on:** March 30, 2022, 04:14:33 AM »

That's what I have, and it even has a bore appropriate size guide so the screw hits the center of the ball. These have always worked great and I have one for each size ball in my collection. Well up until today!

walks with gun · « **Reply #3 on:** March 30, 2022, 05:43:12 AM »

I like the little .32's but are the most problematic muzzleloader there are. I try to keep one grease gun with a pointed needle nozzle (Plews 05-045) type around to push a ball out.

Longknife · « **Reply #4 on:** March 30, 2022, 03:19:35 PM »

I dry balled once on my little .32 and was able to trickle enough FFFF in through the touch hole, with the help of a tooth pick, to blow it out. It only took one pan full,,,,,Ed

alacran · « **Reply #5 on:** March 30, 2022, 03:48:10 PM »

I have a couple of CO2 dischargers. They are safer to use than a ball puller.
Of course, you have to remember to have them with you when the need arises. I spent nearly an hour trickling 4 f into a touch hole with a vent pick.
That got the .32 unloaded.

smylee grouch · « **Reply #6 on:** March 30, 2022, 05:17:35 PM »

I have seen this so many times, me and others. One more vote for Null B powder and a chambered breech. When at home I used my air compressor (120 psi) but sometimes getting a vent sealed up for the dischargers can be problematic.

Daryl · « **Reply #7 on:** March 30, 2022, 10:47:30 PM »

I've loaded powder less with my .32, .36, .40, .45 and .69 multiple times. For me, the easiest, unless there is someone along to hold the rifle, is to dribble 4F or 3F powder through the vent
or down the nipple seat, then replace the nipple or prime the pan and fire it out. Fooooooot onto the target or ground.
Most ball screws if home made from normal wood screws have a large diameter 'shank' which expands the ball quite a bit. The ball screws Track sells have a smaller shank but wider/deeper
'blades'. Screw it in a bit and pull and it usually pulls out. Clean the lead off the 'threads' and repeat. Screw it in a 1/2 turn or full, then pull. Do this until the ball comes out. It usually comes out the 3rd time. Screwing it all the way into the ball before pulling, usually expands the ball HARD into the bore,making pulling it very hard indeed. If you aren't using a clean shooting load (tight), any fouling buildup will make pulling the ball much harder. Likely easier out shoot it out. With flinter of caplock, I pour prime(3 or 4F) into the pan or nipple seat, then tilt the gun slightly and tap the top flat or breech with the knob on the end of my starter. The powder will trickle into the area behind the ball. Do this 3 times, then replace the nipple and cap it, or prime the pan and fire the ball out. If you don't see or hear the ball come out along with smoke, use your rod to make sure the bore is empty.

MuskratMike · « **Reply #8 on:** March 30, 2022, 11:02:22 PM »

Daryl; that is the lesson I learned. I tried trickling 4F into the touch hole but was probably too impatient and primed then tried to fire with no result. I did screw the ball puller too far in and the bit actually went all the way through the ball and as you said it expanded the ball. Combine that with a fouled bore (probably the 10th shot) there was no pulling it out of the barrel. Alas, a hard lesson learned.

ScottNE · « **Reply #9 on:** March 30, 2022, 11:23:18 PM »

Have had 2 experiences with this. My brother’s .45 got dryballed and stuck tight…Rod stuck tight…3 guys hauling on it, no movement. Eventually, rigged up a plate where the face of the muzzle was against the plate, but a small hole allowed the rod to pass through. A ratchet strap was wrapped and glued to the rod, and the other end looped around a tree. Cranked away, and the tree groaned and creaked, eventually the rig the barrel and plate was on collapsed…And the rod never did budge. It remains in the barrel to this day.

My other brother had a ball wedge halfway down his .75 smoothbore. The paper wadding had slipped off the rod and was sitting in the barrel, and the ball hit the paper and rolled it up until it created a literally rock solid ring of compressed paper around the ball and stopped dead, tight as as you could imagine. Barrel had water and grease pumped into the touchhole to neutralize the charge, and the ball was drilled out…Drill went clean through the ball, leaving a ring of paper and lead still stuck, but that allowed the grease and powder goop to be pulled out. After several sessions of pulling over the course of days (with a hook on a rod going through the hole drilled through the ball and catching on the back edge, the ring of lead and paper eventually gave all at once. The barrel was no worse for wear, amazingly.

Daryl · « **Reply #10 on:** March 31, 2022, 03:56:04 AM »

Except for the .45 where "it remains in the barrel to this day".

Why not pull the breech?
Why didn't you try to shoot it out with a dribble of powder into the vent or nipple seat or maybe you did?
A word of caution, make sure when dribbling powder down the nipple seat, that the powder level is below or very close to below the bottom of the threads.
Also- it takes quite a bit of tapping to get powder to dribble into the breech through a vent - BUT - it works and works every time. Now, you may only get the ball
to travel up part way. That's good as it makes more room beneath the ball. Dribble in some more, then re-seat the ball and fire it out. Oft times if there is no powder
loaded, the ball will be seated to block off the breech. You should still get in enough powder to push it up a bit. Put in some more. This happened recently(this winter)
with my .32. It took 3 "tries" to get the ball out, but it came.

Stoner creek · « **Reply #11 on:** March 31, 2022, 04:12:57 AM »

I agree with Daryl. I couldn’t rest until that bore was clear. It’s not too big of a challenge.
I had a similar situation (broken cleaning jag) happen with a high end Allen Martin gun. I went back after I had a chance to gather myself and cleared it up in less than 30 minutes.

Brokennock · « **Reply #12 on:** March 31, 2022, 04:53:41 AM »

I mentioned the possibility of the puller screw expanding the ball and suggested predrilling a pilot hole, on that other forum once.... Stuck ball threads that go for many pages are more common than politicians lying over there....
And was sharply ridiculed.

I knew I had seen those ramrod jag attachments with drill bit and puller for a reason.

Though I must say, having seen it in action, I've become a proponent of the grease gun ball removal method.

Daniel Coats · « **Reply #13 on:** March 31, 2022, 06:11:14 AM »

I've only got a ball stuck once and it was a pain I don't want to repeat. If it happened again I think I would make sure there was no powder and take the plug out. Then heat up the end of a steel rod and melt the ball inside the barrel. This would be a last resort treatment but always thought it would work.

Craig Wilcox · « **Reply #14 on:** March 31, 2022, 06:52:57 PM »

Daryl appears to be the champ of dry balling, and I shall henceforth use his method. I have yet to dry ball, although I came close once or thrice. Room for improvement in my future.

Daniel Coats · « **Reply #15 on:** March 31, 2022, 07:20:41 PM »

Way funnier than dry balling is watching someone accidentally shoot their ramrod down range!

Daryl · « **Reply #16 on:** March 31, 2022, 08:59:12 PM »

Quote from: Craig Wilcox on March 31, 2022, 06:52:57 PM

Daryl appears to be the champ of dry balling, and I shall henceforth use his method. I have yet to dry ball, although I came close once or thrice. Room for improvement in my future.

I'm always talking when I should be concentrating on loading. No big deal p just shoot it out, or pull it.
My 'tool kit' has ball pullers. pre-drilling works very well as Brokennock suggests. At the start of our trail, there is a T-handled stainless steel rod hanging in a spruce tree. Along with that, is a yellow plastic Speer Bullet bog, screwed to the tree. Inside that box are various sized ball puller screws and drills for pre-drilling holes. if someone on the trail 'dry-balls', they merely walk back to the start of the trail and pull the ball. There are 2 hooks in the tree to hold the T handle, so all you do is pulled on the butt stock.

Jeff Murray · « **Reply #17 on:** April 01, 2022, 12:46:16 AM »

Dry balling is frustrating when at a shoot but way more infuriating when hunting. Wasting hunting time poking 4 F through the touch hole and firing the ball out does not fit into most hunter's plans. I have always carried a steel rod with a puller in the jeep after the first time this happened. Also carry nylon line so the jeep can fill in as the anchor to pull the ball if that is the best alternative. Poking 4 F through the touch hole works pretty effectively if you have the time and patience. Seems like a good back up reason to prime with 4F. I have never tried to get 2F or 3F through the touch hole?

Daryl · « **Reply #18 on:** April 01, 2022, 08:07:43 PM »

Tapping the top flat with the starter knob, or knife handle eliminates what has to be utter frustration at trying to
poke powder through the vent. I cannot even imagine trying to do it that way.

Daniel Coats · « **Reply #19 on:** April 01, 2022, 10:37:07 PM »

Anyone besides me keep a backup gun in camp? Sure takes the bite out of problems like this.

davec2 · « **Reply #20 on:** April 02, 2022, 02:00:56 AM »

All this is exactly why I included a "ball drill" as part of the Gunner's Mate tool I made for myself. And yet I have received a lot of "why would anyone want to drill a hole before running the ball puller in" comments.....usually followed by "I don't like carrying all that extra weight". The ball drill part of the tool weighs exactly 18 grams. I guess if an extra 18 grams puts you over your limit for weight carrying capacity, you shouldn't carry too many extra lead round balls either.

Oh.....Daniel.....I have done the "shoot your ramrod down range" thing....once......many years ago. I admit I didn't think it was too funny just after I pulled the trigger, but shortly thereafter I thought it was hilarious . Spent an hour looking for the ramrod and never did find it. Makes me chuckle even now to think about it....

Daryl · « **Reply #21 on:** April 02, 2022, 03:09:11 AM »

I witnessed just such a shot at a rendezvous over on Vancouver Island - seems to me, the fellow who did it was Hugh.
I might be mistaken & it could have been a fellow named Harold. LOL
The rod went into pieces, iirc. That's why I use steel rods. Just kidding.
That was a long time ago & well, you know, memories and such.
I used my Gunner's Mate to remove a ball loaded without powder, by drilling a hole first with the tool. The ball came out easier than ever before, so it works.
Just thought I should add that. One day this winter, I dry-balled 2 or 3 times LOL. Couple times I loaded double powder in the .69 - BOOM! Impact 1" higher than
normal, each time. That would be 160gr. 3F and 482gr. RB. LOL - IT happens.

ScottNE · « **Reply #22 on:** April 03, 2022, 03:07:48 AM »

Quote from: Daryl on March 31, 2022, 03:56:04 AM

Except for the .45 where "it remains in the barrel to this day".

Why not pull the breech?
Why didn't you try to shoot it out with a dribble of powder into the vent or nipple seat or maybe you did?
A word of caution, make sure when dribbling powder down the nipple seat, that the powder level is below or very close to below the bottom of the threads.
Also- it takes quite a bit of tapping to get powder to dribble into the breech through a vent - BUT - it works and works every time. Now, you may only get the ball
to travel up part way. That's good as it makes more room beneath the ball. Dribble in some more, then re-seat the ball and fire it out. Oft times if there is no powder
loaded, the ball will be seated to block off the breech. You should still get in enough powder to push it up a bit. Put in some more. This happened recently(this winter)
with my .32. It took 3 "tries" to get the ball out, but it came.

That’s certainly what we *should* have done, but it was some years ago and I wouldn’t say we as a group were prone to common sense….Operated firmly in the “Americans don’t think, we act!” frame of mind.

Marcruger · « **Reply #23 on:** April 05, 2022, 05:34:43 PM »

David Crisalli's "Gunner's Mate" tools have a ball drill as one feature, and it works so much better than using a screw puller alone. The Gunner's Mate is the Swiss Army Knife of muzzleloading tools, and everyone should keep one handy. In a range box, in a bag, or in your pocket. It can prevent a ruined day out.

God Bless, Marc

Marcruger · « **Reply #24 on:** April 05, 2022, 05:41:35 PM »

Oh yes, a piece of paracord is also very useful in pulling a ball. If you have a double ended ramrod with threaded ends, you can attach a jag or handle, wrap the paracord around it, then tie the opposite end to a tree, and have some leverage pulling the ball. Same with a range rod. Just tie the paracord to the rod under the handle, tie it to a tree, and pull away.

Some ranges have a convenient pair of heavy nails driven for just this occasion. The gaps between boards of a picnic table can suffice as well. A plain wooden ramrod end is pretty hard to hold onto in pulling a ball.

God Bless, Marc

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Author Topic: A lesson learned (Read 2832 times)