Author Topic: Maple Stock finish recommendations  (Read 3666 times)

BozoMiller

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Maple Stock finish recommendations
« on: March 31, 2022, 02:11:39 AM »
Just wondering about stock finishes for my SMR. So much to choose from, I'm in a quandary on which I should use. I really need some help. Thanks

Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: Maple Stock finish recommendations
« Reply #1 on: March 31, 2022, 03:25:28 AM »
Finish or stain?
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Offline Chocktaw Brave

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Re: Maple Stock finish recommendations
« Reply #2 on: March 31, 2022, 03:49:05 AM »
Speaking of finishes, have you ever heard of Odies oil finish?
It’s available up here near me and I wouldn’t have to special order anything. But just curious if anybody’s tried it on gun stocks?
As far as staining on Maple I would definitely use the iron nitrate. It really brings out the color in Maple.

Offline mikeyfirelock

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Re: Maple Stock finish recommendations
« Reply #3 on: March 31, 2022, 03:58:11 AM »
I have had excellent results with the Laurel Mountain Forge products.   If your gun will see a lot of outdoor use , and you are not specifically looking for a historically correct finish, these poducts have provided a very consistent, stable, and weather resistant finish on the guns I’ve built. Easy to use also.
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BozoMiller

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Re: Maple Stock finish recommendations
« Reply #4 on: March 31, 2022, 07:58:37 AM »
Speaking of finishes, have you ever heard of Odies oil finish?
It’s available up here near me and I wouldn’t have to special order anything. But just curious if anybody’s tried it on gun stocks?
As far as staining on Maple I would definitely use the iron nitrate. It really brings out the color in Maple.

No can't say that I have. I've getting some real positive feedback on Tried & True.

Offline Dphariss

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Re: Maple Stock finish recommendations
« Reply #5 on: March 31, 2022, 06:20:36 PM »
Just wondering about stock finishes for my SMR. So much to choose from, I'm in a quandary on which I should use. I really need some help. Thanks

Tried and True Varnish Oil looks good and has no plastics or solvents.
I have heard good reports on Chambers oil finish as well but don’t know what’s in it.
I cooked up some oil varnish a while back and have been using it.
For a SMR I would not over finish it. One coat of a fairly viscous finish should be enough. Birchwood-Casey Tru-Oil cut 50-50 with boiled linseed is a low cost alternative.
This is a Kibler with ferric nitrate stain and shop make linseed varnish one soaking coat re oiling the dry sports with excess wiped off after some soak time. Different lighting changes to color of the photos somewhat. A little turpentine will improve penetration. 10% or so.









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Offline Not English

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Re: Maple Stock finish recommendations
« Reply #6 on: April 01, 2022, 04:12:47 AM »
I've been using a 1-1-1 combination of linseed oil, non-poly varnish, and turpentine or mineral spirits for a finish as of late. I apply the mixture with my fingers and work it in until the stock won't take any more. Leave it set until dry as long as there are no puddles. If you do get one, work it in or blot it up. Once fully dry, I repeat the process another couple of times. THev more you hand rub, the better it will be.

Offline Dphariss

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Re: Maple Stock finish recommendations
« Reply #7 on: April 01, 2022, 04:59:59 PM »
I've been using a 1-1-1 combination of linseed oil, non-poly varnish, and turpentine or mineral spirits for a finish as of late. I apply the mixture with my fingers and work it in until the stock won't take any more. Leave it set until dry as long as there are no puddles. If you do get one, work it in or blot it up. Once fully dry, I repeat the process another couple of times. THev more you hand rub, the better it will be.
Solvent fumes are not good. I quit using anything with these as a component years ago. The problem with store bought “boiled” LS oil is that its not stock finish, it basically log oil for painting fences and log buildings/oil paint thinner and it dries too slow. This can be corrected by buying a gallon of “boiled” oil, a second hand store deep fat fried (or electric skillet) or two, some Japan drier and some calcium carbonate pills/powder from a health food store, crushed limestone will also work. Put the oil in the fryer or skillet, add a tablespoon or 2 of  japan drier (I do a gallon at a time) a hand full of calcium pills, dozen or so. Turn it on high and leave till it starts to smoke a little. This does several things, it thickens the oil and darkens it, it kills the organic acids (as the oil warms it will start to bubble as the acid is reduced by the calcium, like putting acid in baking soda) which can inhibit drying. The added driers will speed drying a little more. The “boiled” on the label just means its had driers added so it will polymerize faster. Heating it will thicken the oil somewhat (this is a good thing for stock finish) darken it, another good thing and it will also “dry” faster.
BUT its going to waterspot, get white when exposed to high levels of moisture etc. Its a good filler but not the best top coat. The cheap and easy way is to mix your heat modified oil with Birchwood Casey Tru-Oil about 50-50.
The best way is the follow Eric Kettenburg’s varnish recipe. But I could not make the alcohol dissolved  resin thing work and finally mixed them slowly into heated Turpentine. BUT DO NOT HEAT TILL IT SMOKES. Hot but not that hot. Its got a far lower auto ignite temp than LS oil. Once the resins are combined add to hot oil a little at a time until its all in or if the pot is big enough add hot oil to the turp-resin mix. This makes a really nice traditional finish that I really like. If its a little thick for a seal coat at 5-10% turp than has been aged 2-3 days  in a shallow pan open to the air. It works better that way. The heat bodied oil/oil varnish will fill American Walnut if far fewer coats than the thin, mostly solvent  “modern” finishes will and if made right this varnish will be hard enough the rub back/recoat in 12-24 hours at 65-70 degrees. Direct sunlight will kick the varnish over much faster but heating the stock will force a little out of the pores and may need to be wipes soon after put in the sun. With sunlight 2 coats a day can be used and  I done a filled finish in 2-3 days on American Walnut when done rifle. But I generally used just heat modified oil for fill. I allow this to set in a open jar with a cloth over it ti partly gel this makes a very thick fill that can be put heavily on the stock by rubbing it on, left till partly set, surface will wrinkle, then rubbed back to the wood with burlap and recoated. In summer 2 coats a day can be used. But take it all off with the burlap rub before another coat. Then after the final rub add a thin coat of varnish rubbed on by hand. For shine.  Be careful of spontaneous  combustion or rags ect as with any drying oil/varnish.
This makes a fairly soft varnish that is easy to rub back but hard enough to look good and not waterspot easily if at all. This is essentially the varnish used by gunsmiths back in the day unless they used spirit varnish.
BUT BE CAREFUL. No kids or pets around, its like a deep fat frier cooking chicken or french fries serious serious burns can result so use protective clothing and BE CAREFUL. And do this OUTSIDE.
Finishes containing high levels of stoddard solvent etc dry mostly by evaporation of the solvent. Many are 80-90% solvent. Very little actual finish.
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Offline Wingshot

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Re: Maple Stock finish recommendations
« Reply #8 on: April 01, 2022, 05:49:42 PM »
Very interesting discussions on finishes and I hope this question doesn’t derail things. Does anyone use LinSpeed Oil?? I remember using it on a couple stocks I refinished back in the late 1970’s as well as CVA Philadelphia Derringer kit I built. I see that it’s still available and apparently popular with guitar builders. I vaguely remember how painfully slow drying it was but then again maybe my application process was off. Curious to see if any of you have used it.

Offline Not English

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Re: Maple Stock finish recommendations
« Reply #9 on: April 02, 2022, 05:19:05 AM »
DP, I guess I don't understand. You quote my post and start off on the safety police routine, but farther down in your post you talk about using turps and heated turpentine. I guess I don't understand the difference.

Wingshot, I have used Linspeed oil in the past. I didn't care for it though. I thought the finish felt a little plasticcy similar to a poly urethane finish. I also didn't like the shine. This is purely my opinion, I have seen guns finished with it that looked good. Buy a small bottle and finish some scrap wood and see what you think.

Offline Daryl

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Re: Maple Stock finish recommendations
« Reply #10 on: April 02, 2022, 05:33:40 AM »
I used Linspeed back in the 70's as well. I thought it was about identical to the True Oil I switched to.
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Offline Eric Krewson

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Re: Maple Stock finish recommendations
« Reply #11 on: April 02, 2022, 04:41:00 PM »
You guys probably already know this but it is a new one on me. I like Chambers oil finish the best but with the finish cost and shipping I can have $30+ in a bottle. Being cheap and not building enough rifles to keep a bottle of the Chambers stuff from setting up between guns I turned to Tru-oil straight from Walmart, cheap, plus available only 4 miles from my house.

I am rebuilding a TC stock that turned out to be really rough, I had always hand rubbed the Tru-oil finish on guns to avoid the overly shiny result the Tru-oil supplies. After watching the Kibler stock finishing video where the lady applied the finish with a piece of red scotch bright pad I decided to give the same technique a try on my current project.

Not finding any red scotch bright pads at Lowe's I opted for green. I put coats of sanding sealer on the walnut stock first with the green pad, the pores were completely sealed after 4 coats. I sanded back each coat but not to bare wood.

Next came the Tru-oil, again applied with a clean pad for each coat. I apply a thick coat with scotch bright pad doing only one half of the stock at a time and quickly wiping off the excess just seconds after application with an old wash cloth. The picture below is after 3 coats of Tru-oil.



This it 5 coats of Tru-oil using this process, Fred Lecto showed me how to reshape a TC stock, advice I followed closely for great results.


« Last Edit: April 02, 2022, 04:45:56 PM by Eric Krewson »

Offline Not English

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Re: Maple Stock finish recommendations
« Reply #12 on: April 02, 2022, 07:09:39 PM »
Eric, the idea of using scotchnbrite is a good idea. I'm finding that I'm using the various grades of scotchbrite more and more comparedv to steel wool. I've always been quite leery of using steel wool on walnut for fear of embedding strands of steel wool in the grain.

Offline Daryl

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Re: Maple Stock finish recommendations
« Reply #13 on: April 02, 2022, 07:23:39 PM »
I have used 0000 wool to dull a too-shiny finish. I have also used pumice and/or rottenstone for the same purpose.
I've not embedded steel wool strands in the wood, however have noticed them in the cloth I use to wipe the wood off with, afterwards.
Daryl

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Offline Darkhorse

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Re: Maple Stock finish recommendations
« Reply #14 on: April 03, 2022, 04:17:01 AM »
I think anybody who is finishing out a maple gunstock owes it to themselves to try Chambers traditional oil finish at least once. Your search might end right there.
It's the best and easiest finish I've used and the rifles I've finished with it have gotten lots of good comments about the final finished project.
As for longetivity, my main deer rifle which I hunt with at least 90% of each season, in all weather conditions, now has 20+ years on it and it still looks almost new. Just a wax job every now and then keeps it looking it's best.
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Offline Dphariss

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Re: Maple Stock finish recommendations
« Reply #15 on: April 03, 2022, 06:43:27 PM »
Very interesting discussions on finishes and I hope this question doesn’t derail things. Does anyone use LinSpeed Oil?? I remember using it on a couple stocks I refinished back in the late 1970’s as well as CVA Philadelphia Derringer kit I built. I see that it’s still available and apparently popular with guitar builders. I vaguely remember how painfully slow drying it was but then again maybe my application process was off. Curious to see if any of you have used it.

I have used linspeed years ago. Its OK I guess. I think Tru-Oil mixed with boiled LS oil is better..
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Offline Dphariss

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Re: Maple Stock finish recommendations
« Reply #16 on: April 03, 2022, 07:02:14 PM »
DP, I guess I don't understand. You quote my post and start off on the safety police routine, but farther down in your post you talk about using turps and heated turpentine. I guess I don't understand the difference.

Wingshot, I have used Linspeed oil in the past. I didn't care for it though. I thought the finish felt a little plasticcy similar to a poly urethane finish. I also didn't like the shine. This is purely my opinion, I have seen guns finished with it that looked good. Buy a small bottle and finish some scrap wood and see what you think.

The problem with mineral spirits is the amount used in many modern “varnishes” and such some are 80-90+ percent solvent. Thus there is little in an ounce of the stuff to actually do anything for the wood. So it might take 10 coats to get much actual finish in/on the wood. AND I have never heard of dopers huffing turpentine to get high. Next. The heated turpentine is done OUTDOORS. When the turp/resin is mixed in the oil I will often heat the mix again to drive off more of the aromatics. And when mixed with oil/oil varnish to thin it it should never exceed  20% other wise it will not help carry the finish into the wood.  Plus real turpentine adds some extra resin to the mix.
Finally, tung oil, mineral spirits and plastics, and lot of modern stuff is some synthetic of one sort or another really have no place on a “traditional” long rifle. This also goes for various dyes and such.
AND I really don’t care what people finish stocks with. But when one can usually tell just by observation that some synthetic stuff has been put on the wood cause it does not look right maybe people should think about it a little more. There are very good alternatives. That are not only historically correct and invariably safer and easier to use but invariably look better in the end.
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Offline Dphariss

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Re: Maple Stock finish recommendations
« Reply #17 on: April 03, 2022, 10:47:41 PM »
And as I may have previously stated I used to work in a pllace where wet sanding walnut with a solvent laden “tung oil” varnish was the norm.  This was back before I knew any better. The fumes from ONE man doing this would fill the entire shop and would almost gag someone coming into the shop who was not “nose blind”.  So I don’t think its a good idea to huff “paint thinner”, “mineral spirits” or Stoddard Solvent fumes. Anyone who wants to use the stuff is free too, but they need to think a little bit and maybe look at the MSDS or SDS and its seems to be called now to find out what and how much in the stuff they buy and use. 
Odorless mineral spirits. Includes stoddard solvent as well since mineral spirits aid a synonym for Stoddard Solvent.

https://www.safety-kleen.com/sites/g/files/bdczcs371/files/2019-12/82739rev%2012-19.pdf

Now is turpentine a lot better?
No.
But I don’t use it as 60-90% of the varnish I am using either.
I suspect that the varnish I just made is well under 10% turp. But I have no way to know. Other than its not much.

https://www.hsbuild.com/assets/pdfs/P13304_SDS.pdf

Homer Formby’s Tung Oil. This is one of the things we used to used when I was working for other people.

https://www.paintdocs.com/docs/webPDF.jsp?SITEID=BOLDOC&prodno=30110000&doctype=SDS&lang=2
Its at least 60% solvents and perhaps much more depending on the individual batch.

None of this stuff is good. But it is possible to reduce the amount that is present in the materials we use and thus the concentration of fumes we breath.
AND a heavier, more viscous oil based varnish requires far fewer coats, and so less exposure, than a product that is comprised of 60-90% solvent that then rapidly evaporates into the air in thin films.
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