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Author Topic: Bivins Rule?  (Read 5335 times)

Offline Osprey

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Bivins Rule?
« on: October 15, 2009, 05:11:31 PM »
I remember discussion on here about the Bivins Rule, from his dealing with ATF/IRS when he did the 200 guns.  Did a search and can't find the info, does anyone remember what the limit was on number of guns produced per year that came out of that?  Our building group was contacted about doing a rather large number of plain flinters, don't want any of the guys getting in trouble and none of us want any dealings with big brother.   ::)
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Offline Acer Saccharum

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Re: Bivins Rule?
« Reply #1 on: October 15, 2009, 05:39:35 PM »
Depends on does the counting. If I get forty done by the time I'm out of here, that will be a generous estimate.
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Offline t.caster

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Re: Bivins Rule?
« Reply #2 on: October 15, 2009, 05:57:24 PM »
I believe I read some legislation  not too long ago that said if you make 50 or more (MLs) in a year, you are considered as a "manufacturer" and subject to all the  manufacturing, BATF,EPA, IRS, et al, laws applicable to manufaturers.
Below that number they didn't care.
Perhaps one our lawyer/builders would chime in here.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2009, 07:31:22 PM by t.caster »
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Tom C.

Offline Osprey

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Re: Bivins Rule?
« Reply #3 on: October 15, 2009, 07:43:38 PM »
Caster, that's what I was looking for.  Couldn't remember if the number was 20 or 50.  Thanks!  Any other confirmation appreciated, though.   ;D
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Offline Stophel

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Re: Bivins Rule?
« Reply #4 on: October 15, 2009, 08:23:51 PM »
Called the "Gunsmith tax simplification act".  It was about one or two paragraphs long, and slipped into something else.  I still don't know who was the blessed soul that did it.

 ;D
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Offline t.caster

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Re: Bivins Rule?
« Reply #5 on: October 15, 2009, 09:12:47 PM »
Yah, I reached #49 last month and had to lay myself off for the rest of the year!
LOL!! ::)
GONE HUNTIN!
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Tom C.

Offline Stophel

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Re: Bivins Rule?
« Reply #6 on: October 15, 2009, 09:13:12 PM »
Actually introduced by Baucus (of all people) and Grassley

http://www.theorator.com/bills108/s396.html
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Offline longcruise

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Re: Bivins Rule?
« Reply #7 on: October 16, 2009, 01:57:34 AM »
How does the 11% Pittman Robertson fit in?
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Mike Lee

Offline B Shipman

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Re: Bivins Rule?
« Reply #8 on: October 16, 2009, 06:53:05 AM »
50 for sure.
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Offline Randy Hedden

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Re: Bivins Rule?
« Reply #9 on: October 16, 2009, 07:34:59 AM »
Quote from: longcruise on October 16, 2009, 01:57:34 AM
How does the 11% Pittman Robertson fit in?

The 11% Pittman Robertson tax is the 11% excise tax that the gunmakers who make less that 50 guns per year have been exempt from.  PR Federal excise tax is charged on all sporting goods and is to be given out to individual states mainly to build public shooting ranges.  My State of Illinois took PR tax money and built large recreational lakes and state parks around the lakes and only used the money to build one public shooting range in the basement of a state college.  The range opened on one day and closed down forever the very next day.  The Illinois State Rifle Association sued the State to have them use the PR tax money for the intended purpose of building public shooting ranges.  That year the State sent over $5 million back to the federal Government rather than have to build public shooting ranges.

BTW,  while John Bivens was the first target of the government, many other gun builders were also targeted as well as custom golf club makers, custom fly rod makers, custom knife makers, etc.

Randy Hedden 
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Offline longcruise

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Re: Bivins Rule?
« Reply #10 on: October 16, 2009, 07:37:49 PM »
Randy, thanks for clearing that up.

Friend of mine had an archery shop and got in a bind over the arrows he made and sold from components that he bought wholesale and therefore not subject to PR at purchase.  That 11% over three years hit him pretty hard!
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Mike Lee

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Re: Bivins Rule?
« Reply #11 on: October 16, 2009, 10:33:29 PM »
This is what some of Pittman Robertson money is used for.  A fee range at Roush Lake south of Ft. Wayne.  A very nice safe public range.  It is baffled and you can't see the sky from the shooting line forward.  25, 50 & 100 yard lines

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