Author Topic: Homemade aqua fortis  (Read 2073 times)

BozoMiller

  • Guest
Homemade aqua fortis
« on: April 06, 2022, 03:01:32 AM »
I found this on the net. Anyone ever try this.

Heres the Acid Maple Recipe. I have used it on Curly Birch too. Works well.
3 parts water (About Pint Size Parts)
1 part muratic acid
ALWAYS ADD ACID TO WATER just remember 3A's DO ALL THIS OUTSIDE AND DON'T INHALE THE FUMES!!!!!!! WEAR EYE PROTECTION!!!!!
I then pull a pad of 0000 steel wool apart and add to the mixture. Let mixture dissolve the steel wool usually takes about 2 days. It is then ready for use.



The finer and slicker you get the wood the better the stripes will pop out. I apply sparingly. It will turn the wood a yellowish color. you will think you have ruin it. Apply heat with a heat gun or torch till blackened. Don't burn it just turn it black. Again you will think you ruined it and by this time you be hating me. Rinse with baking soda and water mix almost a paste but still a liquid as you wash it will turn brown. Steel wool again after drying and add you favorite finish.
Every piece of maple will be different try a small scrap piece before doing the actual piece. if it doesn't suit you you can always add a little leather dye to get more reds or browns

Offline Dphariss

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9920
  • Kill a Commie for your Mommy
Re: Homemade aqua fortis
« Reply #1 on: April 06, 2022, 03:48:24 AM »
Hydrochloric will continue to darken the stock.
Even if mixed with Nitric acid it will continue to darken the stock. And some commercial “aqua fortis” stains will as well. Black to nearly black in a few years.
ANY mix with an acid other than nitric is incorrect and may give unexpected results.
I recommend making a stain with ferric nitrate crystals and distilled water. I have a lifetime supply of nitric but making the stain with acid is a PITA and can be VERY disastrous. You MUST where protective clothing and a full face shield. One drop will destroy an eye instantly.
He who dares not offend cannot be honest. Thomas Paine

Birddog6

  • Guest
Re: Homemade aqua fortis
« Reply #2 on: April 06, 2022, 02:50:47 PM »
Still looking for photos.  I have bought 4 dif rifles in the past that were stained almost Black finish. Removed the finish & you would not believe the striped wood that was hidden under that black aquafortis finish.  That is why I don't use aquafortis. (called Stink Water in the old days) 50 yrs from now it will be black & just another ole useless flintlock shoved in the back of a closet & nobody appreciate what a beautiful piece of wood it really is.

Oh it initially looks awesome, but it slowly goes to black.

Offline James Rogers

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3163
  • James Rogers
    • Fowling Piece
Re: Homemade aqua fortis
« Reply #3 on: April 06, 2022, 03:31:49 PM »
I dont believe the above recipe is aqua fortis.
Aqua fortis IIRC is nitric acid with no iron.
Just plain old clear nitric. There was a period newspaper obit where a kid had drank a gunsmith's aqua fortis thinking it was water.
Here is a 30 year old sugar maple stocked rifle gun by Jim Hash colored with aqua fortis. No iron added and cut either 4 or 5 to 1.
No black yet.



Offline Dphariss

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9920
  • Kill a Commie for your Mommy
Re: Homemade aqua fortis
« Reply #4 on: April 06, 2022, 05:40:22 PM »
Still looking for photos.  I have bought 4 dif rifles in the past that were stained almost Black finish. Removed the finish & you would not believe the striped wood that was hidden under that black aquafortis finish.  That is why I don't use aquafortis. (called Stink Water in the old days) 50 yrs from now it will be black & just another ole useless flintlock shoved in the back of a closet & nobody appreciate what a beautiful piece of wood it really is.

Oh it initially looks awesome, but it slowly goes to black.

Bill Knight told me of this blackening  of the stocks and I started using the store bought stuff I had as barrel brown when mixed with the same  companies cold brown. Worked great when rust bluing 4140 and 1137.

Shop made ferric nitrate does not do this. But the commercial stuff is often adulterated with hydrochloric and it WILL darken a stock over time. Below is a curly maple horn base plug done over 24 years a ago with stuff I got from TOW, its near black, its looks darker in real life. I have rifles about 20 years old stained with actual ferric nitrate made from only nitric acid and water with some iron/steel added and they look just like then did when I finished them.
The reason original rifles are very dark in many cases is due to the linseed oilk based finish being blackened by sulfur dioxide and other contaminates resulting from wide spread used of coal in the East from heating and industry. It will react with the varnish and turn it black. This has nothing to do with the stain or the color of the original finish.
The reason that some (maybe all) commercial “aquar-fortis” stains are made with AQUA REGINA, Nitric and Hydrochloric mixed, is that its more aggressive and will dissolve to iron/steel faster or so Bill told me.  This is mix was “Regal water” because it will attack gold. IIRC.
This rifle has been hunted with in good weather and bad and has been shot in many matches I have not done anything to it since the last coat of oil about 20 years ago. But it does show some lightening in the wear areas  Looking at the forend I may put a little finish on it. The buttstock is from another piece of wood and its darker in some places. “Someone” screwed up the first buttstock.
 ::)





I never tired dilute nitric acid on a stock. Seems to me this would need some serious neutralization. And the stuff I was given about 20 odd years ago by a guy who gave up gun work is REALLY active stuff and I would wonder how far to reduce it to make it suitable, or even safe, to put on a stock.  Reduced 50% it will still boil vigorously when nails or such are added to it.
He who dares not offend cannot be honest. Thomas Paine

Offline Not English

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 594
Re: Homemade aqua fortis
« Reply #5 on: April 12, 2022, 07:27:18 AM »
Dp (?) I'm not sure it's a matter of coal and sulfur. The Scandinavians have historically used Linseed oil to finish and preserve the interiors of their open double enders. New and old, they all turn black eventually. I think it's probably more a matter of UV and use. The dark/black exterior of the hull is/was due to the use of pine tar to seal the hull.

Offline Dphariss

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9920
  • Kill a Commie for your Mommy
Re: Homemade aqua fortis
« Reply #6 on: April 12, 2022, 04:37:57 PM »
Dp (?) I'm not sure it's a matter of coal and sulfur. The Scandinavians have historically used Linseed oil to finish and preserve the interiors of their open double enders. New and old, they all turn black eventually. I think it's probably more a matter of UV and use. The dark/black exterior of the hull is/was due to the use of pine tar to seal the hull.

Just quoting what Bill Kinght has told me over the years. I do know this. Rifles that lived father west or out of the areas of large populations and up wind of the steel mills don’t seem to the as dark. I know of of a rifle from a 1870s and exposure to sun in a case facing a South facing window in a courthouse in Montana did not darken it its simply turned it to powder. Are the SMRs often very dark? How about the NW Gun? Those that still have finish? If it were UV one would think guns in the intermountain West with its 4000 ft plus ground level would get more UV than those in the East. ?
AND all the rifles in the East do not turn black. Some are finished with spirit varnishes. And some like this rifle are 50 years younger than one made in  1800.
TheN the English guns and rifles.
But they were routinely refinished or renewed at the end of every hunting season, the landed gentry and peers ect guns anyway. This is interesting. Will see if I can did up something on the WWW.
I would have to really dig to find the info from Bill and he will not be posing here. I have a lot of material from him over the last 40 years or more.
I am confident its not the ferric nitrate. Now using cut back Nitric Acid might be something else. And to be frank i never dreamed of using something that acidic and active to stain a stock.
Then buildings and such painted with oil based paints.
Interesting.
I was going to sole from frizzens with 1095 today maybe I will look into this, or maybe not.

We did get a nice April shower yesterday and last night so i won’t be going to the range to test ignition… Again…


He who dares not offend cannot be honest. Thomas Paine

Offline Dphariss

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9920
  • Kill a Commie for your Mommy
Re: Homemade aqua fortis
« Reply #7 on: April 12, 2022, 05:27:43 PM »
I don’t have the patience or the chemical lingo background to dig into this.
But if someone does try this one. There are many.

https://www.si.edu/mci/downloads/articles/Tusoma_paper.pdf

Unfortunately BOTH the men I knew who DID understand and did research have sadly passed on.
It would be nice is it were possible to find things in plain English.
I do wonder if the blackening is not the result of how the oil was cooked and what was added as driers from batch to  batch. Bill Knight stated that the gunsmiths would make small batches of boiled oi/oil varnish. Small batches would reduce the loss from the oil drying before it was all used.  And IIRC J P Beck’s inventory after his death listed a “paint pot” possibly used for making varnish.
He who dares not offend cannot be honest. Thomas Paine

Offline heinz

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1158
Re: Homemade aqua fortis
« Reply #8 on: April 12, 2022, 07:23:32 PM »
Mr Pharris has his chemistry right.  Muriatic acid is low purity Hal, hydrochloric acid.  With iron it forms Ferric Chloride, NOT Ferric Nitrate.
Ferric chloride will give you worse results than chromic acid over time.   Use neither on maple.
kind regards, heinz

Offline Eric Kettenburg

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4178
    • Eric Kettenburg
Re: Homemade aqua fortis
« Reply #9 on: April 12, 2022, 08:17:09 PM »
the only acid that has any business being used in the making of a traditional stain for maple is nitric acid.  And yes, Wahkon bay to my knowledge did habitually use hydrochloric acid in conjunction with nitric acid.  I do not know why.

I also remember Bill talking about coal and sulfur fumes and their reaction stains and/or finishes on antique arms.  I have no way to verify this.  I did in fact experiment, a number of years ago, with using my own boiled oil (boiled with lead) as a finish and then repeatedly exposing it to both coal smoke and wood smoke in my forge shed for at least a year or longer.  And I mean, heavy fuming; I would deliberately fire up the forge and just let it go purely to continue to let the rifle hanging in there.  The finish very definitely darkened but I can't tell you if it was a reaction in the wood/stain or in the oil finish.  I will tell you the rifle smelled like a lovely bbq.  :o
Strange women lying in ponds, distributing swords, is no basis for a system of government!