A big Bark inclusion

[mountainman]

Hi all, just wondering what do you experts use for deep pour dark epoxy? I'm thinking of putting in a piece of wood and epoxy both to reinforce and also keep moisture out, not too worried about looks, I do like character. But the size of this bark inclusion is approximately 3/8" in diameter and about 2" deep.

[Jim Kibler]

I would suggest fitting a wood patch.  I assume this was a “second” we sold you.  Otherwise we we made some big mistake!

Jim

[Cory Joe Stewart]

Do you think it is deep enough to weaken the area? 

Cory Joe

[David Rase]

mountainman,
I agree with you, it adds character.  If it were mine, I would seal it well during the finishing process and enjoy the uniqueness.  A wood plug like Jim suggested would be fine as well.
David

[Stoner creek]

Hi all, just wondering what do you experts use for deep pour dark epoxy? I'm thinking of putting in a piece of wood and epoxy both to reinforce and also keep moisture out, not too worried about looks, I do like character. But the size of this bark inclusion is approximately 3/8" in diameter and about 2" deep.

Wood plug.

[Mike Brooks]

Ditto.

[Gaeckle]

I like David Rase's reply, leave it and finish it as is. I think it would add a unique character to the piece, might even get a "nifty" remark!

[ed lundquist]

Mountainman, I had a similar surprise. Check my post from Nov/Dec 2020 titled "small repair". I didn't have any matching wood and used what was at hand, it was not a lot of trouble and I'm pleased with how it came out. Good luck with it.

[Scota4570]

if I was going to try I'd use a plug cutter.  Find some maple with the same grain orientation.  Cut several plugs.  Drill the knot out in a milling machine.   Bust out several plugs.  Find the one whose grain best matches the stock.  Sometime you get lucky and such patches disappear.   

[Ken G]

I think it will be visible no matter unless you plan to go very dark with a finish in that area. I would just fill with clear epoxy and finish with the rest of the stock.  Be proud of the character it will have. 

If you can't hide it celebrate it.

Ken

[Jim Kibler]

Epoxy will work, but it will also look like epoxy.  Not something I would prefer to see on a longrifle for a big repair.  A wood patch done well, won't show much and if it does it's still in keeping with how these guns were originally built.  Voids or defects were repaired by patching with wood in the period. 

Jim

[rich pierce]

Agree 100% on a wood patch. I recently finished a gun using a wormy piece of English walnut and it has at least 10 patches in it. I learned what works for me. I get it very close to finished then cut a rectangular mortise at right angles to top or side of the stock. The mortise has a small amount of draft on the inlet.  I found I have to be very careful to do no “levering” of chisel on mortise edge. If the top edge of the mortise is rounded at all the glue line will show big time. Then I prepare a plug that also has equivalent draft. I try hard to set up the plug with grain flowing the same as the stock where the patch goes in. Often that means taking an over-sized piece I’ve squared up and working it with a small plane and spokeshave to get it right. I test fit it dry and make it so about 1/16” to 1/8” of the plug will be above surface. With a small artist paintbrush I wet the mortise and plug lightly with water then dry the brush and coat both mortise and plug with Titebond II glue and insert the plug. I lay a piece of lath on top and give it a few taps with a mallet. Then tidy up glue around the plug with a wet rag. 8 hours later, rasp it down and done.

I’m sure there are other ways and that much of what I’ve said is intuitive. Best of luck! Plan it so if need be, you can win on the second try with a slightly larger plug if the first does not look as you hope.

[P.W.Berkuta]

The size of the inclusion is what bothers me not the 3/8" part but the 2" depth part and its location. I would plug it and depending on your skill it MIGHT be not very noticeable when finished .

[Marcruger]

Make sure and stain before you glue something in.  Glue doesn't take stain.  I think I'd use some black in the antiquing process in that area.  God Bless,  Marc

[Jim Kibler]

Tell them how to patch it Mike.  Your repairs are about as invisible as I've seen.

Jim

[oldtravler61]

 You can hide the super glue crack fixes.

[mountainman]

I would suggest fitting a wood patch.  I assume this was a “second” we sold you.  Otherwise we we made some big mistake!

Jim

Hi Jim,  First of all it was my wood that I chose for this project,  and you did not make the mistake, ( by all means and nobody's is to blame) it was a wood that I didn't want to throw away, and I knew there were going to be some risk, that why I chose to have it done by machine, and at the same time I don't mind a challenge..

[mikeyfirelock]

I had an inclusion on the cheek piece of a rifle I just finished recently.  I filled it with a mixture of fine sanding disrupt and epoxy glue.   I was fortunate that I could partially cover it with an inlay, but I dont think you could do that.   I think the wood patch matched as closely as possible and glued into place is your best bet.

[mikeyfirelock]

Fine sanding DUST…..( not disrupt…….stupid I pad)

[mountainman]

I don't know if I can answer each one, but as far as stock weakness, I don't sense that at all to be an issue, in fact the whole wrist area seems very stout.
And it would appear that most of you would agree to patch it with wood, which makes sense for as deep as it is, however I'm not concerned about trying to hide it, in fact I would like to enhance it, I was thinking of a wooden plug to match the contour of the bark edge, and allow it to show it's edges even if the epoxy shows, which is why I'm looking for some dark epoxy, as I mentioned earlier, here again I'm wondering what epoxy would be best for a deep pour, and I did see a YouTube video where someone was using a dark TOTAL BOAT ( brand name) epoxy for filling knotholes, I'm sure there is lot of options available, I was just wondering what you guys were using?
There's some pretty neat stuff out there as far woodworking goes, it seems like the in thing right now is,  using old boards with cracks or knots for table top or counter top or some surface boards then fill it with some colored epoxy. Pretty cool! But I know this a gun we're talking about, and it may not have anything to do with it, but I thought it was worthwhile mentioning.
Anyways I appreciate all of your comments!

[Stonehouse john]

 I would inlay a patch but would not try to make it disappear.  I would cut my inlay from the end grain of a very dark colored knot.  Also, if that little light colored circular area to the left of the inclusion-void in your photo is much softer than the very hard rising-grain material swirling around it, then I would also remove that little area and size/shape my patch to include it. 

When I do these repairs in cabinetry I find it easiest to make the inlay patch first.  I'll stick a piece of clear packaging tape over the area to be patched and trace the exact area I want to fill with a fine point Sharpie marker on the tape.  You can also trace the grain lines surrounding the repair to help you get a really good match on your new piece.  Then find a sacrificial board with the grain character you want the patch to have (in this case a dense, sound knot would work very well).  Cut that donor board to 1/4" thickness.  Then peel the tape with your pattern drawn on it off your stock and position it on the donor board wherever it will look best.  The clear tape does the trick here because you can see through it and move it around until you get a nice match for both the shape you'll inlay and the grain lines you drew on the tape around it.  When you like where it is, stick it down and cut out your perfect 1/4" thick wood inlay.  Then just inlet it into your stock like any other inlay.  Obviously the tighter the better.  I do use epoxy to glue these in because it has the best gap filling strength underneath the inlay but wouldn't fit it loose enough that it would need any gap filling around it, so no epoxy will show at the surface. 
The process is almost easier to do than it is to explain and it will give you a very predictable and good looking result.  I think this repair could become a really nice feature of your build and, as others have said will increase your stock's character.

John

[LilysDad]

And it would appear that most of you would agree to patch it with wood, which makes sense for as deep as it is, however I'm not concerned about trying to hide it, in fact I would like to enhance it,

If you want to celebrate this defect, would it be more appropriate to build it into a barn gun or some such?

[bluenoser]

John,
I, for one, would like to thank you for your very thorough explanation of an excellent solution to this type of problem.  It has been stored in the old memory bank which, I must admit, tends to be somewhat leaky these days.

[EC121]

The one patch I did was in the butt.  I stained some fine sawdust with the alsohol-based stain I was going to use and let it dry.  Then I mixed a thick paste of the stained sawdust and epoxy.  When I got done it looked like a sanded down knot in the wood.  With the sawdust the patch will still take the stain after sanding.

[wmrike]

I'm sitting on the fence on this one.  I like epoxy for the sheer ease and competency it offers, but it's hard to beat a well executed wood patch.

About the "Total Boat" epoxy approach: I used it once where I needed a deep fill in some punky wood.  The stuff is runny as all get out and it certainly penetrated.  No doubt about that.  It generated incredible heat however, enough to make the wood smoke for 5-10 minutes, and be too hot to handle.  I think it's good stuff, just a bit scarier than, say Acraglas.  In my old age I'm trying to dial down the drama.