Gunsmithing 101?

[Stone River]

Hello everyone!
     Need alot of help, and I'm sure you all can supply it.  Here's the problem.  I have the hank'rin to build a gun, I bet you all haven't seen this post before. I own several flinters, and hunt, but thought I might like to have a "personal" gun.  I'm serious so any help you give would be greatly appreciated and not a waste of your valuable time, other than answering greenhorn questions.  I'm hoping it might be fun for some of you to help a newbie "down the trail" so to speak.  Just as a warning we're starting from less than scratch.  Ok, 1st question if your up for it.
     Looking to get a parts set for a rifle.  I went back and forth between Chamber's and TVM.  I guess I'm going TVM, seems like they do alittle more work for you and for a 1st build I need all the help I can get.  I have a .54 cal in mind, Earily or Late Lancaster, like the shotgun square butt.  First what's the difference, can't tell with the untrained eye, and secondly is German Silver easier or harder to work with?  I've read that you can peen brass to make up for your mistakes, same with GS?

Your Servant
Stone River

[Bioprof]

Stone,

As far as I know, most of the Lancaster rifles had brass hardware.   If you want it to be similar to an original, it would probably be best to stick to brass.  

The difference between the early and late Lancaster rifles is primarily in the width of the butt.   The early rifles tend to have a wider butt with less curve when looking at it from the side.

One suggestion.   When you go to buy the brass hardware, stick to the softer sand cast brass hardware.  You'd think it would be more work than an investment cast piece, but in the long run the softer brass is much easier to work and less likely to crack when you try to bend it.    Reeves Goehring sells really nice brass hardware.

[billd]

Knob Mt. Muzzleloaders sells investment castings that file as easy as Reeve's sand castings. More money but a lot less labor.
Billl

[Dphariss]

Hello everyone!
     Need alot of help, and I'm sure you all can supply it.  Here's the problem.  I have the hank'rin to build a gun, I bet you all haven't seen this post before. I own several flinters, and hunt, but thought I might like to have a "personal" gun.  I'm serious so any help you give would be greatly appreciated and not a waste of your valuable time, other than answering greenhorn questions.  I'm hoping it might be fun for some of you to help a newbie "down the trail" so to speak.  Just as a warning we're starting from less than scratch.  Ok, 1st question if your up for it.
     Looking to get a parts set for a rifle.  I went back and forth between Chamber's and TVM.  I guess I'm going TVM, seems like they do alittle more work for you and for a 1st build I need all the help I can get.  I have a .54 cal in mind, Earily or Late Lancaster, like the shotgun square butt.  First what's the difference, can't tell with the untrained eye, and secondly is German Silver easier or harder to work with?  I've read that you can peen brass to make up for your mistakes, same with GS?

Your Servant

Stone River

German Silver is really not appropriate for a flint long rifle. And its harder than brass.
While German Silver is an attempt to copy a much older Asian alloy called "Paktong". While its conceivable that Paktong might have arrived in the US before 1800 its very very unlikely it would have been used in rifle making.
White metal on flintlock longrifles should be coin, Sterling or fine silver. And this would have been extremely rare for uses other than inlays.

Chambers kits are pretty well completed other than installing the metal parts. Dovetails cut ect. The stock designs are good etc.

Dan

[Nate McKenzie]

Knob Mt. Muzzleloaders sells investment castings that file as easy as Reeve's sand castings. More money but a lot less labor.
Billl

Knob Mountain also has nice stockwood and some very good Lancaster style precarved stocks- both early and late.

[smallpatch]

Stone River,

First of all, if authenticity is your desire.  Brass hardware is correct.
Secondly, Chamber's makes the best quality kits available on the market today.  You may pay a little more, but just like everything else in this world, you get what you pay for.
I've assembled at least a dozen Chamber's kits.  They are by far the best.
Back to the authenticity issue.  Chamber's kits are also very specific in their design, as they are ALL designed after an original gun, not using generic stocks that can be used for a half dozen different styles.  When you are finished, you will have a gun with proper architecture, and something you can be proud of.

Jim also uses soft brass hardware, not the hard investment cast bronze that a lot of others use.

I hope this helps.

[DTCoffin]

I'm not sure about TVM's kit, but I know the chambers kit was pretty well knocked out,final shaping for the desired thin/sleek appearance.I have been very pleased with this kit.I have built just a few guns,but never from a kit and figured it was time to try one to see how it comes out.
  On the brass versus steel. i inquired about the steel for my gun cause I'm gonna hunt with it(not that it matters much cause in a few months brass will tarnish over any shine)and Barb's mom mentioned that it was  not a traditional hardware for that gun.But I'm sure some were made,basically,its your gun.build it to suit

[Stone River]

     Well I see I have come to the right place.  Your responses are truly appreciated.  I did a bunch of research and I know that brass would be more authentic, but they offer the set either way so I figured I would ask.  I knew German Silver is a harder material and less forgiving.  Ok brass it is.
     You all have kind of thrown me a curved though.  I have Chamber's DVD by Turpin and have watched it multiple times.  I think I have a pretty good idea of what is involved it puting his parts set together.  What scared me was the drilling and taping of the lock and the under lug work.  Messing up a $125 stock would hurt but messing up a $300 + lock and barrel would really ruin my day.  Unfortunately this is going to have to be a "canned" build.  I don't have the knowledge to source various parts from different companies and put a set together myself.  Hopefully with your help and after a few of these I will have that knowledge.
     So what would you do?  Both companies have extremely good reputations from what I have found in my research, and I'm sure there are many others out there as well that I do not know about, but help me pick one so I can run with it and not waste your time on this point.  I'm affraid by backing up already I have done so.  Alittle more help here is respectfully requested.  I'd like to get the set on order in the next day or two and put this part of the project to bed.  Oh, easiest wood to work with, Maple or Walnut?

Your Thankful Servant
Dan

[elk killer]

maybe another idea is,,
find someone near where you live that builds
to help you out

[brokenflint]

As has been said before, get the books and DVD's you can, do your homework before you touch a chisel.  Cutting barrel dovetail's and drilling lockplates are always a PWFFF I got that done now we're good to go, well at least for me.

the three basic books (though there are many others) recommended for building are
The Art of Building the Pennsylvania Longrifle - Dixon
Recreating the American Longrifle - Buchele
The Gunsmith of Grenville County - Alexander

Another DVD is Ron Ehlert's "Assembling Kentucky Rifles from a kit" - American Pioneer Video
this shows Ron assembling a Chambers kit.

And of course a search on this site and the old archive files for specific tips, tricks and tools.


Broke

[Stone River]

Elk Killer, that would be great.  I am hoping someone may be close to me if I get in a jam.  Please check my profile and if anyone is close please let me know.

Broke
     I have the Alexander book already on the way.  I have the Turpin DVD, and will get the Ehlert one as well.  I'm definitely a more visual learner.  I've also done as you have suggested and went back through the site researching.  A ton of excellent info!

     DT and smallpatch, I've heard nothing but good things about Chamber's stuff.  Just nervous on drilling involved.  I see they use the soft brass that bioprof recommended so that's a plus.

     Oh, I also checked out Knob Mtn.  Good looking stuff for sure.  I'll certainly bookmark that.

Stone R.

[JTR]

Stone,
Drilling and taping holes is really pretty easy,,,but you'll want to practice on some mild steel before trying it on your lock and trigger plate!
When you decide you're ready to try it, as with most things that you get what you pay for, buy good or better quality drills and taps. If you buy the cheapo Harbor Freight variety you'll quickly regret it. I think Sears sells some Craftsman sets with taps and the correct drill size. These aren't the best, but will work for a long time with care.
Be sure to use some lubricant when taping the holes.
I'll bet a google search on 'taping holes or threading holes will give you all the info you'll need to do it properly.
Good luck and never fear, you have the best gun builder guys in the world here,,,,although I'm not one of them!

Here's a video I found on basic drilling and taping,,,not a gun but still the same principle.
http://www.wonderhowto.com/how-to/video/how-to-tap-holes-in-metal-164034/

John

[Roger Fisher]

Suggest you go with Jim Chambers....!

Chuck Dixon's book is a must.  He walks you thru the process.

Break the trip down in to small jobs step by step.  Do not look at the whole job at once.  You will think "I'll never get this done"!

Do not work late or when ticked off or tired.

Do NOT have your soul mate 'help'

[ERH]

go with jims kits

[Karl Kunkel]

S.R.

What Roger said.  Treat each individual step as an learning adventure.  Don't be in a hurry, or have a set deadline for completion.  She get's done when she's done.  Don't look too far ahead, research each step, and only worry about the task at hand.

[Stone River]

     Thank you all for your help and input.  Ok, Chamber's it is.  I was quite impressed when I ordered the Turpin DVD about a year ago that Jim answered the phone.  I like a hands on businessman.  I own my own business and answer the phone like the next guy.  I guess we are all down to earth people.

     Roger, I guess I'm lucky, my girlfriend bought me a set of chisels for the project for Christmas last year.  I just got busy at work with this great economy and never got around to ordering.  Probably a blessing in disguise looking back on it because I found you all.  Dixon's book is on the list for this week.
     Ok so I'm going to do the Chamber's Issac Haines.  Switched from the Lancaster because I need a shorter gun for the New Hampshire and Maine thick woods and Chamber's Lancasters on his site are long guns.  It's going to be .54 cal., with a 38 inch barrel if I remember correctly.  Now for wood, Maple or Walnut?  Believe he offers both in that model.  Which would be more correct or easier to work with?  I'm thinking of a somewhat "plain jane" model with no patch box.  One less thing to worry about messing up on the 1st build.  May or may not be authentic, but working with the "Kiss" principal.
     Ok I'll give Jim a call on Monday and get it under way.  Swamped barrel makes me alittle nervous to but I'll deal and it will be lighter.  Oh and my new saying is slow is fast and fast is slow.  I have 2 really good shooters now so I'm in no hurry.
      Thanks folks!  Got to set up a shop now.  JTR, I always buy quality tools never been disappointed yet.  I figure pay now or pay later so I always buy top self.  Never been disappointed yet.  I need vises etc, but I went through some of the past posts so hopefully I won't have to bother you all with that.  If anyone has a certain tool however that will make this process easier I'm all ears.
     Well old man winter is coming on fast here in NH, but if anyone is close to me and wants to burn some powder sometime drop me a line.  I've got plenty of powder so......

Your Servant
S.R.

[Geoff Jones]

Stone River...

Your profile says Southern NH.  I live in Amherst, and would be more than happy to help you with advice and any issues you may have with the build.  I've done 6 Chambers kits over the years and think you are DEFINITELY making the correct decision going with his collection of parts...  I prefer building from a blank, but Chambers is the best for your first build.

Drop me an email...  gquintonjones@comcast.net

Thanks, Geoff

[Stone River]

Geoff,
     Excellent!  Hey I work in Bedford so really close to you!  I'll drop you a note.  Thanks, it's a new world for me.  You all have been great! 

Stone R.

[Nate McKenzie]

Mike brooks has a great gunbuilding tutorial on the web at:

http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/tutorials/brooks/Brooks1.html

[Joe Stein]

David Price is close to you in Contoocook, N.H.  I've met him at Dixon's.  He's a really friendly and nice guy, and he is always willing to help people.  He is a member of this forum.  Check out his website:
http://www.davidpriceflintlocks.com/
Don't let his level of craftsmanship scare you.  Some of the finest craftsmen in the business are members of this forum and always willing to help out us lesser mortals.
-Joe 

[JTR]

Don't let his level of craftsmanship scare you.  Some of the finest craftsmen in the business are members of this forum and always willing to help out us lesser mortals.
-Joe 

Now that was well said, and true!

Stone,
Put a patchbox on it,,, it'll look better.
And use a decent grade of maple.
And keep your tools really sharp!
You'll enjoy it here!

John

[DTCoffin]

Stone, thats the kit i got, with the rice barrel in .54,you won't be disappointed.bout the only thing else i could add is, do you have a drill press? that might make your drilling holes for lockbolts and pins better, use the jig described in peters book.

[Stone River]

Hello All!
     I've got to say I'm overwhelmed with the acceptance here.  I found you all when I was doing a search for a tool list needed to build a gun and yours came up.  It's excellent by the way.  It wasn't til I posted a couple times that I realized that I joined a pretty exclusive group.  Made me nervous to be honest.  Hats off to you all for taking the time to make me feel accepted.  Very much appreciated!
     Joe S.  Mr. Price is very close to me.  Only about 10 miles from where I live.  It doesn't surprise me that he is a member here.  I'm told he does extremely good work to say the least.  I'm not looking for someone to build a gun for me, but if I could show someone my progress at or before the next stage I would certainly feel more comfortable.  Geoff here was kind enough to offer his assistance and I will certainly take him up on that offer and any other offers and assistance will meet with equal gratitude.  I don't suppose any of you all flyfish here?  Might work some sort of barter.  It's what I do for a living.
     Nate, watched Mike's tutorial today.  Still in awe with what you all start with and what it turns into.  Not sure if I'll ever get to that level, though I am persistant.  Very good.
   JTR, I plan on upgrading the wood.  Maybe not so much for looks, but maybe easier for the build?  Not knots etc?  The Patchbox, well I know it will look better just affraid I'll have my handsfull with the basics.  I'll sleep on it.  Lighting the fuse tomorrow.
    DT.  It's a good shooter?  I figure this 1st build isn't going to be spectacular, though sometimes I surprise myself.  I have 3 nephews so one of them will probably end up with the 1st one.  You know carry on the tradition so to speak.  As for tools, well I don't have allot, but probably enough to do this project.  No drill press, but was always looking for an excuse to buy one.  Need a vise, don't have one.  I've searched the back posts here and have some good ideas, but most of you all have modified a commerical one to work with tools I do not have, so still need to come up with a "store bought" one of those.  I figure there will be quite a wait for the kit so I'll have time to research the shop set up.  I'll take a look at the jig in Peter's book. A jig sounds like a really great idea.  I saw one on here that one of you all made out of clear lucite.  Made great sense to my untrained eye.  Was wondering where he got the lucite.  Oh guess I've got to learn how to sharpen chisels.  That's great, all part of the experience right?

Be well and safe!
Stone R.