Author Topic: Accra glass gel question  (Read 3996 times)

Offline Terry Cheek

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Accra glass gel question
« on: April 18, 2022, 04:45:59 PM »
Hello, my guru friends. I have ordered an Accra glass gel kit to tighten the smallest fitting errors (less than printer paper thickness). However, I have read 7-8 years old posts advising against using the release agent provided with the kit. Why? is my question. As always, all edifying advice and comments are appreciated.
Respectfully
Terry

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Offline wmrike

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Re: Accra glass gel question
« Reply #1 on: April 18, 2022, 04:56:57 PM »
My experience:  Regular Acraglas sets up brick-hard, but the gel has the slightest bit of give to it, even with powdered metal mixed in.  You should not have any issue with the Acraglas release agent used in conjunction with the gel.

Offline borderdogs

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Re: Accra glass gel question
« Reply #2 on: April 18, 2022, 05:04:15 PM »
Hi Terry,
I have had no problems using the release agent at all at least that was my experience. In fact I have used smears of clay on a breach/tang area and didn't have a problem with that either.
Rob

Offline Van

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Re: Accra glass gel question
« Reply #3 on: April 18, 2022, 05:16:03 PM »
   I have Acraglas Gel bedded 3 rifles and used the release agent provided with no problems.  I must have got the mix just right too as it set up rock hard.

Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: Accra glass gel question
« Reply #4 on: April 18, 2022, 05:23:35 PM »
Hello, my guru friends. I have ordered an Accra glass gel kit to tighten the smallest fitting errors (less than printer paper thickness). However, I have read 7-8 years old posts advising against using the release agent provided with the kit. Why? is my question. As always, all edifying advice and comments are appreciated.
I wouldn't use any accraglass filler in a case like this.  Wet those areas and they will probably close up. 
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Offline Terry Cheek

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Re: Accra glass gel question
« Reply #5 on: April 18, 2022, 05:36:14 PM »
Mike, I haven't thought of that. I will give it a try before using the gel. If the water trick works, I can shelve the gel for later use. I post questions to learn from the experiences others are willing to share. Shout out to all in this group who share with this newbie.
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Terry

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Offline Cory Joe Stewart

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Re: Accra glass gel question
« Reply #6 on: April 18, 2022, 05:44:44 PM »
I agree with Mr. Brooks.  Such a gap will barely be visible.  If not you can also use vasoline as a release agent. 

Cory Joe Stewart

Offline davec2

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Re: Accra glass gel question
« Reply #7 on: April 18, 2022, 06:25:47 PM »
Terry,

Are you talking about the paint on release agent (poly vinyl alcohol) that comes with the Acra Glass kit ? Or are you talking about the spray release that Brownells sells?  I have used both with excellent results but the spray release is much easier to use.

https://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-tools-supplies/stock-work-finishing/stock-bedding-accessories/mold-releases/acra-release-aerosol-14oz-sku081028000-1045-3808.aspx

Just as a matter of course, I use Acra Gel to bed the breech area of every rifle or pistol I build primarily to completely waterproof the end grain exposed in that area and I use the spray release all the time.
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Offline Frozen Run

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Re: Accra glass gel question
« Reply #8 on: April 18, 2022, 06:41:07 PM »
I will give it a try before using the gel. If the water trick works, I can shelve the gel for later use.

If Mike says he wouldn't use accraglass in this scenario then there is no outcome whatsoever in which I would resort to using it, he has too much experience building to ignore. Between dampening the stock to whisker it and then staining and finishing it the likelihood of those gaps not disappearing are unfathomable. Plus, other things to take into consideration are that you want a nice wood to metal fit but you don't want it so tight that the parts become difficult to take out. You'll end up taking the barrel out to stain your stock and the forend snaps in half or the lock out to clean and lubricate it and the inlet will blow out, stuff like that. Wood expands and contrasts over time and if the inlet is too tight it will create cracks in the stock around the too tight part. Plus your stock is probably just acclimatizing to its new environment which it will do once you take it to a new environment or the seasons change.

Things to consider once you do decide to accraglass something down the road, not this issue, is that if you don't use the release agent you will permanently glue all of your parts to the stock. Also, while it is a miracle product for some fixes, using it when better fixes are available or doing a bad glassing job will either make it look completely worse or cause you hours of headache trying to remove the bad job and re apply a fix.

You should probably post pictures of the gaps you are referring to as well. Two things people commonly do, and I am guilty of this, is either sugercoat the problem to try and fish for a solution while still saving a bit of their pride, or blowing something way out of proportion in their mind. I'm particularly guilty of this last one as you're always your own worst critic.         

Offline Terry Cheek

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Re: Accra glass gel question
« Reply #9 on: April 18, 2022, 07:34:36 PM »
Frozen Run, I agree with you regarding Mike's advice. Also, considering your comment about posting pictures, I will when I get home this afternoon.
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Terry

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Offline Frozen Run

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Re: Accra glass gel question
« Reply #10 on: April 18, 2022, 07:51:25 PM »
Also, considering your comment about posting pictures, I will when I get home this afternoon.

There are a lot of very experienced people that use this forum and not posting a picture is like asking a doctor to diagnose you over the phone. Also, I can't count the number of times someone posted a picture here about a problem they knew they had and got pointed out a entirely different one they were unaware of.

Offline Ky-Flinter

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Re: Accra glass gel question
« Reply #11 on: April 18, 2022, 08:15:16 PM »
Paste wax works as a release agent for Acraglas and is a lot easier to apply.  Wipe on liberally, don't wipe off.  Be sure to fill any areas that would create a mechanical lock, like the end of the barrel/breech plug, hole or notch in the breech plug bolster, etc., with clay, then release over the clay.

Ron
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Offline D. Taylor Sapergia

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Re: Accra glass gel question
« Reply #12 on: April 18, 2022, 08:24:55 PM »
I don't use the release agent that comes with AcraGlas, either for the original epoxy or the gel.  I use shoe polish/wax like Kiwi brand and a tooth brush to apply.  Scrub on the wax, allow to dry, and proceed.  Use wax too on finished wood where an overflow of the epoxy can and will cause issues.
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Offline Terry Cheek

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Re: Accra glass gel question
« Reply #13 on: April 19, 2022, 12:52:36 AM »
Here are pictures of the fitting gaps I am concerned about. Also I included a picture of the flashpan to barrel fit. This is my first flintlock build and I’m trying to figure it out as I go.













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Terry

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Offline Stoner creek

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Re: Accra glass gel question
« Reply #14 on: April 19, 2022, 01:17:04 AM »
Don’t worry about the gap around the trigger guard inlet. Do not fill that. Stain and finish will take care of that little issue.
You need to finish inletting that butt plate. Get some inlet black and remove where it marks black. Looks like mostly around the front extension of the butt plate. Even with the screws in you can still get a great fit.  A very small amount of work should be required. Go slow.
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Offline Terry Cheek

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Re: Accra glass gel question
« Reply #15 on: April 19, 2022, 04:12:16 AM »
I have been using in letting black and the interference marks are very light. I was concerned about removing too much wood. But, I will continue with in letting, ever so slowly.
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Terry

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Offline Daryl

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Re: Accra glass gel question
« Reply #16 on: April 19, 2022, 04:15:10 AM »
That butt plate only appears to need to go forward, not any further down.
Daryl

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Offline Dphariss

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Re: Accra glass gel question
« Reply #17 on: April 19, 2022, 05:12:28 AM »
Hello, my guru friends. I have ordered an Accra glass gel kit to tighten the smallest fitting errors (less than printer paper thickness). However, I have read 7-8 years old posts advising against using the release agent provided with the kit. Why? is my question. As always, all edifying advice and comments are appreciated.
Use two coats of paste floor wax, two coats. On any thing that you want to remove again. Fill any places in the metal that could form a lock with wax. Warm the stuff a little when mixing it. Also you can bet dye to add color if you want. I use that and don’t use odd stuff some here recommend.

Dan
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Offline Dphariss

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Re: Accra glass gel question
« Reply #18 on: April 19, 2022, 05:19:40 AM »
I would pean the TG finials to enlarge them slightly. The BP may need other means to fix. Like moving it forward. And I second Taylor’s advice about finished wood getting a coat as well.
I usually hammer the back side of parts to enlarge them.

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Offline Hawken62_flint

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Re: Accra glass gel question
« Reply #19 on: April 19, 2022, 03:54:18 PM »
I’ve used Acraglas in both flavors and have never had a problem with the release agent. But I usually put on 2 or 3 coats letting it dry between coats. But like several people have advised, you really don’t need it to fix those minor gaps. Listen to the experts who have built hundreds of rifles.

Offline Jim Kibler

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Re: Accra glass gel question
« Reply #20 on: April 19, 2022, 10:52:56 PM »
Another bit of advice...  Don't finish metal parts until the entire rifle is assembled completely.  There are many reasons why this isn't a good idea.

This is something I see from time to time and cringe.  Basically, it makes the job of stocking up a nice rifle MUCH more difficult.  Typically the wood and metal parts are filed / sanded together for a good fit and sometimes metal parts may need to be adjusted.  For example your guard rear finial could easily be peened, but it becomes more difficult if the part is finished. 

Jim


Offline Jim Kibler

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Re: Accra glass gel question
« Reply #21 on: April 19, 2022, 10:55:47 PM »
You can make the job of fitting the buttplate a little easier if you are up for reducing the curvature a bit. We straighten each buttplate we supply, but it's hard for us to get them all perfect.  You can squeeze the plate in a vise or even support it from below and pound it a bit.  You would be more than welcome to send it back and we can help as well.

Jim

Offline Terry Cheek

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Re: Accra glass gel question
« Reply #22 on: April 19, 2022, 11:08:49 PM »
Thanks, Jim. I will work on the buttplate some before I remove more wood. All the experience shared by everyone is appreciated.
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Terry

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Offline RichG

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Re: Accra glass gel question
« Reply #23 on: April 20, 2022, 02:09:01 AM »
if you refit the butt plate and the screw holes don't line up just plug the holes with dowelling and re drill the screws. no one will ever know but you. ;)

Offline bama

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Re: Accra glass gel question
« Reply #24 on: April 20, 2022, 02:24:46 AM »
To your original question, the release agent provided works very well. The problem although small is in the clean up. The release agent is blue if I remember correctly and sticks to the metal surface, sometimes this can take a little extra cleaning to peal or clean all of it off the metal surface.

I agree with all of the above comments, as far as a little more fitting of the butt plate and peening of the ends of the trigger guard to close those gaps up.
Jim Parker

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