Author Topic: Most Prevalent Larger Calibers?  (Read 1965 times)

Offline Pukka Bundook

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Re: Most Prevalent Larger Calibers?
« Reply #25 on: April 30, 2022, 03:58:10 PM »
.54 and .58 always worked for me on mule deer too, Ez.

Offline Dphariss

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Re: Most Prevalent Larger Calibers?
« Reply #26 on: May 02, 2022, 04:46:08 PM »
I did this some years back before I had RCA and did it out of curiosity after reading accounts by JJ Henry and. Col Hanger and wondering at the common modern knowledge that the early rifles were “large bore”. These were all rifles that were flintlock originally. It includes early and late period rifles. Also the same rifle, pictured in a different book might be listed a little smaller or larger in the bore.  At the mercy of whoever measured or guessed at the bore size.  A friend of mine also told me of finding an account  that some riflemen use a rifle with a ball the size of a cranberry. If we can figure out the size of a Colonial cranberry.
There are other accounts as well.  In Dewitt Bailey’s “British Military Flintlock Rifles” chapter 6 “Indian Rifles in British Service” we find that both the traders and British military officers were advocating that the selling of rifles to the natives be outlawed and it was, it was ignored but it was made law. The traders did not like the rifle since it reduced sales of powder and lead and the military wanted them banned because of “how the natives made war”. In reading the accounts of the number of rifles in native hands by the 1740s I suspect that Braddock was likely shot with a rifle by a native.
Below is an excerpt from Bailey, Chapter 6.
I highly recommend this chapter to any student of the longrifle. I originally bought it to look at photos of the Tatham rifles but Chapter 6 is a treasure.  Also note that it’s Appendix 1 contains descriptions of the rifles mentioned one at least from each group. Appendix 3 gives  the composition of Ferguson’s force at Kings Mountain.









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Offline GameStalker

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Re: Most Prevalent Larger Calibers?
« Reply #27 on: May 02, 2022, 10:33:42 PM »
Thank you for the huge info share!
Jack

Offline Daryl

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Re: Most Prevalent Larger Calibers?
« Reply #28 on: May 02, 2022, 10:56:00 PM »
I'm just surprised there aren't more .69's. It's a very good target as well as hunting calibre.
 ;D ;D
Daryl

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Offline Dphariss

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Re: Most Prevalent Larger Calibers?
« Reply #29 on: May 03, 2022, 05:19:05 AM »
I'm just surprised there aren't more .69's. It's a very good target as well as hunting calibre.
 ;D ;D

I shot J Baird’s 69 cal “Bodacious” years ago. It was a flint Hawken by Doc Baker IIRC.
He shot 100 gr of powder IIRC. It was not uncomfortable to to shoot with that but don’t know what it would be like with a HV load.

Dan
Crisis is the rallying cry of the tyrant”. James Madison

Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: Most Prevalent Larger Calibers?
« Reply #30 on: May 03, 2022, 12:15:15 PM »
I'm just surprised there aren't more .69's. It's a very good target as well as hunting calibre.
 ;D ;D
I know you shoot yours quite well but very few people can shoot anything that big well.
58 is about as big as I can shoot well.
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Offline alacran

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Re: Most Prevalent Larger Calibers?
« Reply #31 on: May 03, 2022, 02:02:51 PM »
I don't consider anything above a .54 to be a target rifle. Yes, the big bores retain velocity further and are accurate powerhouses, but they will quickly fatigue you. Large calibers are meat getters, once you have taken the time and punishment to learn the loads and ranges that you are capable with.
A man's rights rest in three boxes: the ballot box, the jury box, and the cartridge box.  Frederick Douglass

Offline Daryl

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Re: Most Prevalent Larger Calibers?
« Reply #32 on: May 03, 2022, 08:01:04 PM »
I'm just surprised there aren't more .69's. It's a very good target as well as hunting calibre.
 ;D ;D
I know you shoot yours quite well but very few people can shoot anything that big well.
58 is about as big as I can shoot well.

You'd be surprised how well most people can shoot the big ones. (maybe only Canadians?  ;))
Back when we extended our shoots to the upper range, we had a large saw blade, likely 2 or 3' in diameter hanging at 300 meters (327yds). My rifle had never missed that
plate as my 3rd blade was filed in for it and the 165gr. 2F charge. No matter who shot my rifle, Neil, LB, Taylor or me, we all hit that plate(& the only ones at rendezvous to hit it),
however none of them would fire a second shot at it though and I can not to this day, figure out why? ::)
« Last Edit: May 04, 2022, 08:15:39 PM by Daryl »
Daryl

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Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: Most Prevalent Larger Calibers?
« Reply #33 on: May 03, 2022, 09:06:34 PM »
You're right, probably just a Canadian thing. ;D
NEW WEBSITE! www.mikebrooksflintlocks.com
Say, any of you boys smithies? Or, if not smithies per se, were you otherwise trained in the metallurgic arts before straitened circumstances forced you into a life of aimless wanderin'?

Offline Ezra

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Re: Most Prevalent Larger Calibers?
« Reply #34 on: May 03, 2022, 10:21:21 PM »
Unfortunately, ever since my two rotator cuff surgeries, shooting my .58 Lancaster has become, shall we say, rather uncomfortable.  Just one of the reasons I am planning two smaller caliber rifles (.25 & .42).  Unfortunately, I have to get through another surgery first. 

Ez
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Offline bob in the woods

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Re: Most Prevalent Larger Calibers?
« Reply #35 on: May 04, 2022, 02:29:25 AM »
Daryl, back a few years ago I was at the Provincial matches down in Chatham , and someone distracted me while shooting my 10 bore in a smoothbore match. They were really interested in my gun and asked a lot of questions, which wasn't exactly appreciated since I was in the middle of a match !   Point is, my New England fowling gun ended up with a double charge under the .735 ball......280 gr of FFg
That will sure wake you up in the morning !  ;D    The shot went high, but aside from backing up a bit, it didn't "hurt"  .  Wide buttplates and stock design are what it's all about when going large  :)

Offline Daryl

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Re: Most Prevalent Larger Calibers?
« Reply #36 on: May 04, 2022, 08:21:23 PM »
I hear you, Bob.  280gr. and a 600gr. ball. Nasty, however it is the narrow, Hawken-ish butt plates & especially the rounded side to side Hawken that can hurt with heavier charges. That is why I sold my .58 Hawken.
It would not shoot with what today is called a normal load.  Back then, most all my shooting was at 100yards. 50 was used only for roughing in the sights.
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V

Offline HighUintas

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Re: Most Prevalent Larger Calibers?
« Reply #37 on: May 06, 2022, 07:14:32 PM »
If you will hunt out west, especially larger game like elk, and want to shoot round ball, I would go with 54, unless you want to go larger. More states are starting to require a minimum projectile weight for various game and I think a 54 ball is the smallest acceptable everywhere for elk.

Offline Panzerschwein

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Re: Most Prevalent Larger Calibers?
« Reply #38 on: May 07, 2022, 07:23:17 AM »
.45 is a medium bore, it is not a true big bore.

Big bore starts at .54 and works it’s way up from there.

Offline alacran

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Re: Most Prevalent Larger Calibers?
« Reply #39 on: May 07, 2022, 02:27:54 PM »
If you will hunt out west, especially larger game like elk, and want to shoot round ball, I would go with 54, unless you want to go larger. More states are starting to require a minimum projectile weight for various game and I think a 54 ball is the smallest acceptable everywhere for elk.
There are no caliber restrictions for muzzleloaders in AZ. So if you want to hunt elk with a .25 you are certainly able to do so.
Not saying it would not be possible or ethical but it would be limiting.
For me there is no substitute for cubic inches.
A man's rights rest in three boxes: the ballot box, the jury box, and the cartridge box.  Frederick Douglass

Offline Pukka Bundook

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Re: Most Prevalent Larger Calibers?
« Reply #40 on: May 07, 2022, 04:38:48 PM »
Cecily and Agnes Herbert wee cousins who hunted Africa, The Caucasus and Alaska for all the big game.
Their usual guns were double 12 rifles, loaded with a ball and 5 1/2  drams.

There was not much this combination did not take care of.
Neat petite little ladies, but they handled this gun and charge exceptionally well.

"Two Amazons in Africa", is the title of one book I believe.

Offline Daryl

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Re: Most Prevalent Larger Calibers?
« Reply #41 on: May 07, 2022, 07:24:17 PM »
Our only calibre restrictions with ML's used for big or any game, is on bison/buffalo.

With 200gr. charge in my .69 producing 3,093fpe at the muzzle, is 763fpe short of the required 2,000fpe at 100yard line.
Thus, I think that unless the rifle is shooting a long, heavy slug with a BIG powder charge, ML's are not quite legal for shooting
bison in B.C.
Years ago, one BC resident shot and killed a buffalo with a .60 cal. Hawken Taylor built, using a .595" ball and a decent powder charge
unknown to me. Taylor might remember - knowing Sam, it was likely 150gr. or so.
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V

Offline ipman

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Re: Most Prevalent Larger Calibers?
« Reply #42 on: May 16, 2022, 12:56:12 AM »
The .58 ball is much bigger than .50 and it gives more weight

Offline mgbruch

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Re: Most Prevalent Larger Calibers?
« Reply #43 on: May 21, 2022, 05:32:30 AM »
I also hunt with a .50 and a .58.  My first flintlock was a .54 Pennsylvania styled barn gun.  It had a barrel from Green River Rifle Works, and was a good shooter.  I don't own it any longer, and have no desire for another .54 caliber gun.  I love the .50, and I love the .58; so there's just no desire for something in the middle.

My next gun was a .58 caliber Pennsylvania rifle; the first gun I built from a blank.  It has a 42 inch Octagon to round barrel from Colerain, and a Bud Siler lock.  I've taken three deer with that gun, and have not recovered a ball.  With 70 grains of fff, and a .562 ball, it's a thumper!  I still own that rifle, but I don't hunt with it these days.  If I ever go after elk again, I'll use the .58.  Or my 24 gauge Trade Gun.

My current hunting rifle is a .50 caliber iron mounted Southern Mountain Rifle, that I also built from a blank.  Her name is Miss Sally.  She has a 44 inch swamped Colerain barrel, in B weight; and a Jim Chambers Late Ketland lock.  She's a nice slim rifle at about 7 1/2 pounds, and easy to carry in the field all day long.  I've taken two deer with the .50.  One with a previous flinter, and one with Miss Sally.  One deer went down where he stood, and the other went about twenty feet.  For our Northwest Whitetails, the .50 is entirely adequate.  One ball quartered through most of the deer and exited.  On the other I did recover the ball just under the hide, but it had passed through a lot of bone.  My load for the .50 is 65 grains of fff Swiss, and a .490 cast ball.

My two cents.

Offline P.W.Berkuta

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Re: Most Prevalent Larger Calibers?
« Reply #44 on: May 21, 2022, 08:30:08 PM »
Back in the 60's and 70'a a .45 caliber was THE rifle caliber to have for medium size game and targets. When the talk of bear hunting came up it was the .58 caliber that was most talked about. I don't hunt bear so for me the .58 caliber and bigger is out. My opinion is that you need two rifles one in .40 to .45 for small to medium game / target work and .54 or larger for the bigger game. One caliber will not cover all of your requirements ;)
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Offline hanshi

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Re: Most Prevalent Larger Calibers?
« Reply #45 on: May 21, 2022, 09:15:10 PM »
The .45 first with the .50 running second is what I've mostly used for deer.  Where I'm from originally the .50 is very popular.  But it does seem the .54 has overtaken the .50.
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