interesting lock, need build suggestions

[deepcreekdale]

A customer sent me this lock and asked me to do a build with it. It is a combination wheellock and matchlock, it can be used either way. It was made by a gentleman in Poland. Fascinating mechanism, must weigh 3-4 lbs, built like the mechanism on a Tiger tank. The customer is thinking of something either early German or Dutch. Anyone have ideas or thoughts on what to build with this?


I put a large Siler lock next to it for scale





Looks Nordic to me.


I think Polish gun shows might be cooler than ours

[smart dog]

Hi,
It is 16th century and you need to do a lot of research if you intend to do it up right.  You want to look at Brooker's "Landeszeughaus Graz, Austria" and other resources showing 16th century European guns.  Experience building American long rifles will not help you here and actually may cause mistakes.  There is nothing Dutch about it.  It is southern German or northern Italian and it might not have a shoulder stock rather a cheek stock or a very rudimentary shoulder stock.

dave

[LynnC]

WOW What a Gigantic Lock !

I cant imagine such a Gone being fired from the cheek much less the shoulder. Hand/shoulder cannon comes to mind. I Look forward to learning something new and seeing your build photos.

[rich pierce]

Brian Anderson would be a great resource. http://contemporarymakers.blogspot.com/2019/10/wheelock-rifles-and-other-work-by-brian.html

[smart dog]

Hi,
If you can get a copy of Brooker's book on pages 318-377 are scores of German and Austrian long guns many with matchlock-wheelock combinations very much like your lock.  Despite the large lock plate, there are short barreled guns from that period in which the lock was almost 1/3 the total length of the gun.  Good luck.  It should be a fascinating project.

dave

[Bob Roller]

A wall gun with a 6 inch bore or a punt gun with a 10 foot long barrel.I can't imagine the labor it took to make this lock.
The small ones would be a job and I have had a few inquiries about assembling them in the past but turned them down.
The common flintlock was enough for me.
Bob Roller

[Goo]

A Polish craftsman who builds these types of locks posts photos of his work on FB daily, he also responds to messages.  I would think you could contact him and he would send you some information maybe a tracing and some photos.

[deepcreekdale]

Thanks Goo, I bet that is the man the customer got it from. He said it came from Poland. I believe it is the same lock in the picture I posted. (the second lock  from the bottom on the upper left side). I normally don't do FB due to computer illiteracy but that is a great suggestion. Dave, thanks for the book suggestion also. I will see if I can find it. By the way, I pretty much quit building mostly American longrifles long ago. I find them boring and overdone (Sorry guys!) my specialty is Spanish stuff but this is a little esoteric even for me.

[duca]

HOLY S&$T…. Way cool!!! How heavy is that Gun gonna be???

Anthony

[smart dog]

my specialty is Spanish stuff but this is a little esoteric even for me.

And you do those Spanish guns beautifully!

dave

[Pukka Bundook]

Dave Smart Dog has it figured,  but this site may help as well. Do a search here and see what you come up with.

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=18376&highlight=combination+wheellock+matchlock

best,
Richard.

[Mike Brooks]

I'd strip all that complicated hardware off of it and convert it to flint for a SMR.

[c deperro]

If Bolek Maciaszczyk built the lock your lucky . Your starting out with a custom high quality lock.

[deepcreekdale]

I'd strip all that complicated hardware off of it and convert it to flint for a SMR.

I think the world has more than enough SMRs to go around! I was thinking maybe a pocket pistol might work though.

[DavidC]

I'd strip all that complicated hardware off of it and convert it to flint for a SMR.

Yep! Just seal the holes with MB weld and file it flush and it's good as gravy!

[smart dog]

I'd strip all that complicated hardware off of it and convert it to flint for a SMR.

Don't you think it is too Germanic looking for an SMR?

dave

[Mike Brooks]

I'd strip all that complicated hardware off of it and convert it to flint for a SMR.

Yep! Just seal the holes with MB weld and file it flush and it's good as gravy!

Might be the only application I could think of for JB Weld.

[DavidC]

https://www.museum-joanneum.at/landeszeughaus/historische-waffenkammer/publikationen/abverkauf/landeszeughaus-graz-austria

If you click the English translation of that page it has a link where you can send an email to order that book. That or plan a trip since that museum looks awesome!

[alacran]

Couple of interesting wheellocks in Shumway's Jaeger book.

[Otto]

Wow, that is a very cool lock, A bit of a beast, but way cool. I can offer no useful input, other than closely examining the pictures of similar builds, but I am very excited to see what you finally come up with. Keep us posted.

[Daryl]

I've never seen a display such as this. Wheelocks and Match Locks.

[Pukka Bundook]

Daryl,

This picture you show was taken in Michael's home.  (In Bavaria)
He always wanted me to go and visit, but sadly he died before his time.
He had more stuff than a good few museums.
Some or most of his immense and beloved collection has now been dispersed.
"Matchlock" had more original matchcord than nearly any museum.

[Daryl]

Thanks for the info, Richard.

[Karl]

A 16th or early 17th century rifle.  In those days, German smiths were using rifled barrels, a Vernier-type or peep rear sight, and a version of a box in the stock.  The wood was often dense oak, walnut or some other imported hardwood.  The stocks were not sleek, and the bore sizes varied from those intended to be fired from the cheek rest, to those that had to be supported by the shoulder.
The lock deserves your best effort!

[poppy]

 A tschinke birding rifle would be great , but not sure if any were combination match, wheellock.