What is this feature on the pan of this shotgun lock?

[Pukka Bundook]

the safety stops on the locks were called Gravitating stops.

Its as Mike says, but not just fitted to self priming guns.
It was still the norm to prime first in those days, and even though the lock was on half cock for loading, the gravitating stop was an extra safety
to prevent accidents.
Colonel Hawker was always in praise of Joe Manton, but said these were likely to get gummed up and not work if not kept very clean, so did not really endorse them.
they are an interesting idea though!

Rich.

[Frozen Run]

[Bob Roller]

It is easy to se why these locks would,as Lynton McKenzie told me would take every bit of  a tenured teachers wages for a year.
Great video and thank you for posting it.
Bob Roller

[Pukka Bundook]

Lynn C and Bob R,

Regarding the sidenail in the lock that you both mention not looking right;
You are correct!
I have a photo of the other lock, and this screw is not visible.  In the lock it  looks just a hole, so yes, the screw is backed out!

Thank you for the above YouTube Frozen!
Will look at it as soon as I get a minute or three!

[Mattox Forge]

Pukka has mentioned Joe Manton's patent design that looks somewhat like what we are seeing here. Here is the text from page 144 and the images of The Mantons - Gunmakers that describe the patent:

Patent No. 2722 was granted on 6 July, 1803.
PATENT NO. 2722(Figure 10)

A Hammer on an improved construction for the locks of all kinds of Fowling Pieces and Small Arms.

On the margin are three views of the improvement in the hammer; A, is the part which is next the touch hole, and is hollowed out and perforated with a small hole, so as to let the air pass through, but not the powder; B, is the seat of the hammer, which is grooved or hollowed out from the perforation to the edge C, so as to let the air out of the pan, but not the powder. Now the intention of this improvement in perforating the hammer, grooving or hollowing out the seat, is to let the air out of the barrel and pan; in putting down the wadding the powder in the barrel, by the air being allowed to pass, is forced into the perforated receiver A, so that the touchhole is always full of powder, and by these means fire arms of all kinds are prevented from flashing or hanging fire. These hammers may be applied to all kind of fire arms, and may be varied in size, form, shape, and manner of perforation, grooving, or hollowing, and manner of letting the air out of the barrel and pan.

Although the specification is so brief, or perhaps because of this very fact, this patent was to lead to much litigation. Colonel Peter Hawker credited both John and Joseph Manton and also Durs Egg with producing hammers which had the desired effect, but considered that the original discovery was that of Joseph Manton. Study of the law reports makes clear that the specification as drawn up was incorrect having regard to patent law.

Here are the images from the book that show the design.





Mike

[Bob Roller]

The term "Hammer" IS the correct term for what we now call a "Frizzen".The fire is made by  hammering it out of the surface.
"Frizzen" as I understand it is a corrupted German word "Fressen"or referring to eating.
Bob Roller

[Pukka Bundook]

Thank you Mattox Mike for attaching the  page above.
Very good of you.
I could see the illustrations in my minds eye, but loaned my books , when I think about it, it must be ten years ago!
I am going scalp hunting next!

the patent explanation and illustrations are nice and clear, not always the case!

Thanks again Mike!
all the best,
Richard.

PS,

Bob Roller,
How would you like to knock up a pair of locks for me, like the ones in Frozen Runs YouTube video above?
No rush,....I will have to sell the farm to pay for them!

Another thought  comes to mind re. the patent in Mikes post above;
Part of the patent says it ensures powder right into the touchhole.
This is sometimes now considered a bad thing.
Would just like to say though, that with coned platinum liners, the cone comes pretty close to the outside of the liner or barrel,  so no fuse action is apparent on firing.
These locks are Fast!

Someone should start a thread sometime , on that Last high end types of flint locks.
We hear very little about them.

The late Vee and later still 'U' panned locks..

[Mike Brooks]

In yesterday's research I found all sorts of reference to self priming pans but no pictures.  They seem to have been popular 1820 to 1822. I found lots of pictures and text for V pans. Tube locks, patch locks. Lots of development on the 1820 to 2824 era right before they settled on cap locks. The latest flint sporting gun the Mantons made was 1843 IIRC.

[smart dog]

Hi,
Like Mike, Pukka, Mattox Forge, and others, I checked all my references, which are pretty much the same as those folks, and cannot come up with a good explanation.  My first thought was it made a better weather proof seal with the barrel but you would not need or want the hole for that purpose.  So the hole means there had to be some open channel with the touch hole.  I suspect it must be to provide self priming and a better weather seal to that priming. Notice the collar goes all the way around the pan.  I believe a weather resistant self priming pan is the most likely answer.

dave 

[Mattox Forge]

Looking at Joe Manton's patent, his specifically called for the channel on the pan cover to open to the outside so that air would get expelled out. The Staudenmayer lock we are looking at definitely does not do that. I also notice that the pan itself doe not seem to have a cut out to the vent like they normally do.

Mike_StL,  How does the top of the pan sit relative to the vent in the barrel? I imagine that it is well below the vent based on the position of the hole in the pan cover. Would it be possible to post some photos of the lock installed on the gun?
Thanks,
Mike

[Bob Roller]

Richard,
I made 2 pairs of these for a man in Tennessee in the mid 1990's (I think) and used the external parts from TRS.I recall it took 9 months to get them due to a foundry issue and a very long drive involved in getting waxes to the foundry.Using relics for mould masters is NOT the best idea but to make new ones I know would be cost prohibitive.It took a bit of time to get the castings to a point where locks could PERHAPS be made from them.The frizzen springs were frail and had rollers cast in that had ro be removed and real ones made and I think the screws were 1x72's.I still have the tap and die for that along with an 0x80 set.The mechanisms were nearly identical to the one shown and I did install fly in all 4 of the locks.Just getting the castings ready was a lot of work and now I will nor even consider such a job.
I do not know if these locks were ever used or if his family now has them.He is deceased.
  Lynton McKenzie whose knowledge of such locks was far beyond anything I could even imagine told me that the legends of these locks being cut and filed out of solid blocks was just that,a legend. He had some old and superbly crafted hardwood mould masters for similar locks and these  external  parts were cast iron done in sand moulds that were destroyed in the process of removing the plates,cocks and
hammers (frizzens).Then the filers took over and the locks were made.Lock filers,spring makers and then fine screws were all involved and
I am glad so many of these marvelous relics survive for us to study and at times,maybe to copy.I am now beyond any really labor intensive
jobs and while I know you were not serious,I have no interest in making locks at this point in my life.The triggers I now make are all I care to do and that's it.
Enjoy the Spring IF it ever gets here.
Bob Roller

[Pukka Bundook]

Thank you for the reply Bob.

Yes, I was teasing a bit, but the lock filers art is very evident on these locks.
Lovely work.
It seems I may be mistaken on what I Thought I was seeing on the lock in the opening post, but we have had a wonderful journey anyway, looking at these late locks!
The quality has never been surpassed, though at that time, what was the latest patent, could  become obsolete in a very short period.
A very interesting time, and must thank the OP again for starting the thread.