Author Topic: rust after cleaning  (Read 20085 times)

Daryl

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Re: rust after cleaning
« Reply #25 on: October 22, 2009, 05:13:44 PM »
Can't help but notice that quite a few of you blokes use WD40!!! A few of us  have tried it here in New Zealand and we had problems with rust!!! Nobody could work out why this happened.
We now use CRC5-56 with no problems at all.
Could location and temperature play a part?
Hookie13

Absolutely- as noted a number of times here, humidity plays a BIG part in what can work and what won't.  In this area, our average humidity is 50%, with lows to the the 20's and highs to almost 90, yet the average is what seems to be important.
I've noticed, when watching others clean at rondy, that many people are cheap- or frugal, if that word is more politically correct. they think a patch damp with oil, any oil, is an oiled patch and that a single short squirt of WD40 into the bore is all that's needed. The whole idea of the WD40, or any water displacing lube, is to flush any residual oil out.  i point the vent-end of the barrel down, and usinging a pump bottle, blast 4 to 6 squirts down the tube.  The sprayer I have really throws a lot of liquid, until it runs freely out the vent - THEN, I place a patch over the muzzle centre the jag, and force that down tot he breech HARD. This really sends a blast of WD40 out the vent- 8' to the side. I hang a cloth over the vent if clenaing inside to prevent coating everythign int he shop with oil.
This is what I call WD40'ing the bore after drying.  I then use that clenaing patch, soaked with WD40, to wipe down theoutside of the barrel, guard, tang and butt, etc.  the lock is cleaned next to water, with a toothbrush, then wiped dry, then blasted with WD40, which is then iar-pressure blasted to remove excess oil. It is then put back together. I use moly grease on bearing parts inside the lock.  It will go 4 months of shooting before the grease needs to be reapplied, as it sticks pretty well to the steel. I don't get any rust, anywhere.

 I may be using a lot more WD40 than needed, but it's cheap by the gallon & barrels aren't.

Offline hanshi

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Re: rust after cleaning
« Reply #26 on: October 22, 2009, 06:15:16 PM »
Shouldn't it be called "WD41" in that case?  ;D

I don't think I was even aware WD40 could be found in gallon lots.  I've only noticed the spray cans on the shelves.  I sure wouldn't mind laying by a good supply of the stuff.
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roundball

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Re: rust after cleaning
« Reply #27 on: October 22, 2009, 06:27:38 PM »
FYI...there's a wholesale place on the Internet called "By The Case" if I recall correctly.....they happen to carry WD40 and a case price of aerosol cans was very reasonable to have it delivered to my front porch so I bought it like that...

Daryl

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Re: rust after cleaning
« Reply #28 on: October 22, 2009, 07:29:01 PM »
Seems to me a gallon can was around $12.95, yet the large arosol can was in the $7.00 range.  It's cheap by the gallon.

Offline Darkhorse

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Re: rust after cleaning
« Reply #29 on: October 22, 2009, 07:38:06 PM »
Hookie13,

I only use WD40 as a drying agent after cleaning. I do to the barrel and breech with cold water what Daryl does with WD40.
I also wash a dirty lock with hot water, dry, then coat with WD40, dry, then oil.
After the barrel is dried, WD40'd, dried again, then the bore is coated with oil.
No way will I depend on WD40 to protect any steel parts from corrosion. Period.
But whatever works for you have at it.
American horses of Arabian descent.

Offline B.Barker

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Re: rust after cleaning
« Reply #30 on: October 22, 2009, 07:50:12 PM »
I never use anything but real bp Dan. I never knew that soap was so crossive either. I have noticed over the years that some types cause rust on steel when not rinsed.

hookie13

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Re: rust after cleaning
« Reply #31 on: October 22, 2009, 10:43:46 PM »
Thanks for all the responses guys..I had a hunch that temperature would play a part. I should have said that the WD-40 I used was a new can and that I used a fair bit while cleaning.
I sprayed some on an old barrel and wiped it back with a rag to see what would happen and there are rust spots appearing  confirming humidity is the cause I feel.

Offline George Sutton

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Re: rust after cleaning
« Reply #32 on: October 23, 2009, 12:57:44 AM »
After I clean, I wipe the barrel with folded pieces of paper towel to dry the bore.
It works great. When I'm sure it's dry, I wipe the bore with WD40. If the rifle is going to be stored for long periods of time, I oil the bore. I check all my guns periodically to insure they are not rusting.

Centershot

Offline Roger Fisher

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Re: rust after cleaning
« Reply #33 on: October 23, 2009, 01:45:51 AM »
After I clean, I wipe the barrel with folded pieces of paper towel to dry the bore.
It works great. When I'm sure it's dry, I wipe the bore with WD40. If the rifle is going to be stored for long periods of time, I oil the bore. I check all my guns periodically to insure they are not rusting.

Centershot
Glad it works for you, I would respectfully suggest that you beware the paper towel process. Consider the possibility of a piece of said paper remaining stuck in the breech, how you going to get it back out??  Said piece stuck in the breech could/would cause your rifle when later loaded to miss fire.  Or God forbid you flash a pan to dry her out and that stuck piece of paper holds the 'glow' til you pour powder down and imagine your surprise or still worse hold the 'glow' til after you pour powder then start the patched ball down the bore and the 'blast' of air you produce would cause preignition.  Stranger things have happened ::)

Use a piece of cloth.                    please! :)

sniper68

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Re: rust after cleaning
« Reply #34 on: October 23, 2009, 04:59:39 PM »
I've used paper towels for years(drying only). I found out real fast, use "ONLY" premium towels. What I've done to eliminate the chance of leaving a piece in the bore, is to use a slotted tip instead of a jag. Make sure that if fits in the bore not tight, just barley snug. It dries much better than cloth. Like anything you have to know the weaknesses and address them. Here are some photos that I hope demonstrates what I'm talking about.
 

Offline Roger Fisher

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Re: rust after cleaning
« Reply #35 on: October 23, 2009, 05:16:42 PM »
I've used paper towels for years(drying only). I found out real fast, use "ONLY" premium towels. What I've done to eliminate the chance of leaving a piece in the bore, is to use a slotted tip instead of a jag. Make sure that if fits in the bore not tight, just barley snug. It dries much better than cloth. Like anything you have to know the weaknesses and address them. Here are some photos that I hope demonstrates what I'm talking about.
 
Jeez, looks like cloth to me ???

sniper68

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Re: rust after cleaning
« Reply #36 on: October 23, 2009, 05:39:57 PM »
I was just showing how I attached the paper or cloth patch to my cleaning stick.
The second photo shows a paper towel on the far right..

Daryl

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Re: rust after cleaning
« Reply #37 on: October 24, 2009, 03:39:04 AM »
I see a cotton cleaning patch, then a rod with a paper wrapp around it, with three chunks of chees cloth betweent he rod and the table- not sure what the different cloths are for.

When I clean by flushing/pumping water in and out using a can of water, it takes one patch for cleaning, then about 4 or 5 for drying, then spray WD40 into the bore until it runs out the vent, then one more patch for blasting the residual WD40 out the vent. That patch comes out wet with WD40 and not a single 'touch' of any colour from the bore - it's clean, clean, clean.  That system seems to work for me.

sniper68

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Re: rust after cleaning
« Reply #38 on: October 24, 2009, 05:11:26 AM »
Pretty much the same here, except I've got bunches of tow and gauze bandages. With them and paper towels I use a hickory rod with a hole drilled in the cleaning end and usually a jag when using cotton flannel.

Daryl

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Re: rust after cleaning
« Reply #39 on: October 24, 2009, 01:25:14 PM »
Due to the slotted jag's inability to clean to the bottom of the breech to it's full depth and full diameter, I throw slotted jags away when they come with any cleaning rod 'kit' and use full ribbed jags only.  Guns cleaned from the breech, where a slotted jag can be run out the muzzle and then pulled back which causes it to double and bunch, will cause crown wear from the fouling picked on the patch on it's travel through the bore and that crown wear will not concentric - another reason to throw them out.

Offline hanshi

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Re: rust after cleaning
« Reply #40 on: October 24, 2009, 08:51:34 PM »
After running a scraper & wire brush down the bore and dumping the fouling out I usually do the "plug & fill" thing with the bore.  After that I start running wet & dry patches (a lot) till they come out mostly clean.  I then run dry patches & use a hair dryer.  At that point I use WD40 which frequently brings out stuff the cleaning patches couldn't get.  I swab the WD40 well, oil the bore, wipe the exterior and leave it on the cleaning bench.   The oil patches start to look pretty clean by the time I finish.  I clean the lock and am through.

Now, I always run an oily patch down the bore the next day and again a few days later.  About 75% of the time the patches come out a little dirty that next day.  I seem to be unable to get a white patch out of the bore that's perfectly clean.  The only thing I can figure is that I'm either very good or very bad at cleaning.  The bores are always in fine shape, though; knock on wood.
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Offline Kaintuckkee

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Re: rust after cleaning
« Reply #41 on: November 14, 2009, 02:19:09 PM »
Ok,after reading the posts here I am wondering what is the so called "correct" cleaning method I have tried most of what mentioned here and most recently have been using cold water and no soap followed by WD40.....honestly I have to say I get a bit of brownish stain the next day when cleaning this way....when I used hot water and soap I got very little or none of this staining...I am not arguing that hot water and soap is better I guess I am asking which is better? The soap I use(when I used it) is actually for cleaning muzzleloaders also
If it ain't smokin and stinkin you ain't shootin !!

Daryl

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Re: rust after cleaning
« Reply #42 on: November 14, 2009, 09:15:18 PM »
I don't know if there IS a proper method for cleaning a ML any more than a correct method of cleaning a modern rifle barrel.  There are many methods that work for both.  We use what works for us & try to pas that on.
I did notice guys "wipe" the bore with an oil, while I flush the bore with WD40, not just wipe. The wiping comes after it runs freely out the vent from the 3 or 4 squirts down the dried tube and the excess gets blasted out the vent by the first couple hard pushes with a patch from the muzzle.  The next day, week or even 3 months later, a dry patch run down the barrel and out shows no discolouration at all.  After one week, it comes out wet with WD40 - and the patch is clean.

Offline Kaintuckkee

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Re: rust after cleaning
« Reply #43 on: November 14, 2009, 11:46:56 PM »
I do the same with the WD 40 
If it ain't smokin and stinkin you ain't shootin !!

Daryl

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Re: rust after cleaning
« Reply #44 on: November 15, 2009, 12:32:05 AM »
I buy the WD40 by the gallon, shake the can well, then pour it into a clear spray bottle.  After drying the bore until the patches grab so they're difficult to pull back out. That shows the bore is dry.  Then, I shake the bottle before spraying (3 or 4 hard sprays into the bore, tang-down until it runs freely out the vent.  The plastic spray bottle I use will blast a strong single beam about 15 feet if adjusted that way. It surely puts out a lot of liquid.  I set it for a fairly find spray. 
The patch, pushed down the bore hard, sprays the WD40 hard out the vent- up to 8 feet out to the side. Indoors, I hang a denim shop rag over the vent to prevent coating the far wall and everything in between with WD40.  this patch is run up and down the bore until I'm satisfied the bore is well wet with the oil. This patch comes out clean without any discolouration - if cleaned as I've previously mentioned. If it comes out dirty or with streaks, the bore wasn't clean, was it.
WD40 doesn't take long to separate - so that's why I shake the can or bottle well.  If it isn't shaken, the solids and oil will separate form the carrier, which is a problem some people experience with it.  I also spray the lock with the plastic bottle of WD40, after wiping the lock as dry as I can with a cloth.  I pay particular attention to underneath the cock and in the frizzen pivot areas. blowing the excess out by mouth works, of the use of an air-hose if handy. Sometimes I'm too lazy to turn on the air compressor for this stage.  I've yet to E
VER have any 'after rust' using WD40 in this way. Again, our ambient humidity is 50% - extremes of low 20's to high 80's is normal, even in the same day during the summer months.  Fall and spring tend towards more humid weather, but again, I've never had any rusting after cleaning this way.

Dancy

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Re: rust after cleaning
« Reply #45 on: November 17, 2009, 07:59:36 PM »
Any suggestions on keeping the WD-40 and/or oils off and out of the wood?

Offline hanshi

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Re: rust after cleaning
« Reply #46 on: November 17, 2009, 10:32:42 PM »
I lay the gun vent down on a towel or wrap  a towel around the breech area and vent if it's in a cradle.
!Jozai Senjo! "always present on the battlefield"
Young guys should hang out with old guys; old guys know stuff.

Daryl

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Re: rust after cleaning
« Reply #47 on: November 18, 2009, 08:58:35 PM »
Any suggestions on keeping the WD-40 and/or oils off and out of the wood?

Don't wipe the stock with the oil?  After 'hosing' down the lock with WD40 from the spray bottle, I use air pressure to blow off the excess, (you can buy it in an erosol can if you don't have a compressor) then wipe gently with a shop rag and reassemble.  The guns are stored muzzle down in the gun rack, in the lcokup so any excess oil drains down and out the muzzle. That way, there is no oil in the vent recess or patent breech when I load it next time I go shooting with that gun.  If only a week expires between cleaning and re-shooting the gun, a dry patch down and up  the bore wipes out any residual oil that might still be there.  I have NEVER had any 'crusting' or varnishing with WD40, yet I hear of this often by detractors of the product. Perhaps I don't leave a thick enough film for that to happen, but I do use a lot of it after drying the gun and lock.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2009, 08:58:49 PM by Daryl »

Offline D. Taylor Sapergia

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Re: rust after cleaning
« Reply #48 on: November 18, 2009, 10:50:50 PM »
J. Dancy - do you understand that during cleaning of the lock and the barrel, both are out of the stock?  Remove as much of the oil from the lock as you can before you apply grease to lubricate moving parts.  You don't want liquid oil on the lock when you re-install it into the stock.  It will destroy the wood in short order.  I don't use it on the outside of the stock either.  Hard wax is better - Johnson's paste wax, Trewax, Kiwi Neutral shoe polish...
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Dancy

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Re: rust after cleaning
« Reply #49 on: November 19, 2009, 05:41:05 AM »
I have been removing the lock for cleaning, but not the barrel. It does not have a hooked breach or wedges, only basic pins through the forearm. Should I go to the trouble to remove pins and tang screws every time I clean it? I do find it hard to keep the wood oil free when squirting WD40 in the barrel and swabbing with sopping wet patches, not to mention water while flushing it out real good.

James