L. Barber Percussion Lock

[BrentD]

I just recently bought a W.M. Large barreled percussion rifle.   The barrel has that signature glass-smooth interior that I have seen nowhere else.  The rest of the rifle is fine, more or less.  Sights need to be changed out and I may come back and ask you guys how to modify the slightly greenish stain, but the real issue is the lock.

The lock is stamped L. Barber.  It is a bit dirty


But it cleans up okay.


The plate is actually two pieces held together with three silver (sterling?) rivets.  But that works just fine.


But the real problem is that there is no fly.  There is no provision for a fly.  There is a half cock and the gun has double set triggers.  But no fly. 


Before I cleaned it, it sort of smudged over the halfcock, but after cleaning a few test fires showed that is sometimes catches the half cock. Sometimes it just bangs on by.  Surprisingly the sear is not damaged (though somewhat worn).  But sooner or later, this will trash the sear I think. 

Can anyone suggest a solution, especially one that could be handled with a drill press and hand tools?  I'm a wood guy, not a metal guy.  So talents are limited. 

Ideas?

I may not be able to respond much tomorrow, but I'll be watching.  Thanks.

PS. Fires fine from unset trigger.

[Bob Roller]

That lock was made by Les Barber who may still be working with Larry Zornes at the Mould&Gun Shop.He also worked with Bill Large a lot in years now gone by.The on again/off again performance minus a "fly"may be altered by seeing if the rear trigger can be altered to hold the sear up during the firing cycle.This IS a bad idea but I have seen many old guns that were this way.No regard for sophisticated designs or safety whatever.Cutting a hardened tumbler for a fly even with a milling machine and a carbide tool may not work either si the simplest option is the spring that drives the rear trigger.I haven't heard from Les in a very long time and don't know of he is still active or not.
Bob Roller

[P.W.Berkuta]

With the tools and equipment that you have you are S.O.O.L. Look for another lock to replace it that has a fly.

[Ray Nelson]

Make a new home made trigger plate from flat stock with a properly located high bar pinned trigger. Not that hard to do with no need for a lot of tools. i personally like just a high bar single trigger set up. Careful filing the clearance between trigger bar and sear arm allows  it to function with a light trigger pull and little on no play.


Ray

[Bob Roller]

Make a new home made trigger plate from flat stock with a properly located high bar pinned trigger. Not that hard to do with no need for a lot of tools. i personally like just a high bar single trigger set up. Careful filing the clearance between trigger bar and sear arm allows  it to function with a light trigger pull and little on no play.


Ray

This may be the best option.Who made the triggers in the gun now?Might be one of mine from eons ago.
The best shooting I ever did was with my Whitworth and it had a precision lock and single trigger and worked
really well.
Bob Roller

[BrentD]

Bob and Ray,

Thanks for the notes.  They are sort of what I expected.  I hate to put a whole new lock into a Bill Large rifle, but I think something has to be done.  Furthermore, I discovered that a hard pull on the now cleaned half cock will fire the gun.   The hammer rolls back slightly as the trigger is squeezed and then suddenly it fires forward. So, there is that issue too.

Converting to single trigger is a pretty good idea though.  I have a single trigger on my long range rifle of course and it works superbly.  I have not yet pulled these triggers out.  They seem to work just find, but they are a little heavy and I could continue to use them without setting the rear, but that is avoiding the problem, not fixing it.

Here is an idea that occurred to me while I was driving yesterday.  Could I possibly replace the tumbler?  That would certainly require a new stirrup as well, and possibly a new hammer and sear, but just as a wild idea, I wonder if I could find a tumbler that would fit or could be made to fit.  I have a couple more locks around.  I'll see if a replacement tumbler with a fly is completely impossible. 

Thanks again for the comments.

[Hungry Horse]

 Use a single phase double set trigger. This trigger require you set the trigger to cock the lock and does not require a fly in the tumbler. This is the most common set trigger on early guns and most SMR’s. The front trigger stays back in the fired position when fired which holds the sear up to clear the half cock notch. But, you cannot fire it unset.

Hungry Horse

[Bob Roller]

Bob and Ray,

Thanks for the notes.  They are sort of what I expected.  I hate to put a whole new lock into a Bill Large rifle, but I think something has to be done.  Furthermore, I discovered that a hard pull on the now cleaned half cock will fire the gun.   The hammer rolls back slightly as the trigger is squeezed and then suddenly it fires forward. So, there is that issue too.

Converting to single trigger is a pretty good idea though.  I have a single trigger on my long range rifle of course and it works superbly.  I have not yet pulled these triggers out.  They seem to work just find, but they are a little heavy and I could continue to use them without setting the rear, but that is avoiding the problem, not fixing it.

Here is an idea that occurred to me while I was driving yesterday.  Could I possibly replace the tumbler?  That would certainly require a new stirrup as well, and possibly a new hammer and sear, but just as a wild idea, I wonder if I could find a tumbler that would fit or could be made to fit.  I have a couple more locks around.  I'll see if a replacement tumbler with a fly is completely impossible. 

Thanks again for the comments.

If you have the shop and skills or know someone who does the a replacement tumbler can be made with the "fly"
A hard pull on any lock at half cock can either break the tumbler or the sear.That undercut position is designed to
prevent the hammer from falling without help.It is NOT a true safety as we now think of them but will keep the gun
from firing for no reason.This is a handcrafted lock and like mine,no two are really alike.I say that not even one of
these locks are the same.HH's idea of a single stage trigger IS what is seen on many old rifles and the trigger you have
can be altered into that as I said before by increasing pressure on the spring that drives the rear trigger.
Bob Roller

[BrentD]

Bob,
I know someone that could make the Tumbler, but the lock isn't good enough to trouble him with that. I was thinking I might be able to swap one out of an existing lock. Probably very unlikely, but I'll look at, just because I can.

The triggers are pretty nice.  $#*! for stout mainspring and the trigger return spring is much heavier than necessary.  But once adjusted, excellent breaks.  The really strange thing (to me, at least) is that there is not a single screw in this trigger bar.  No wood screw, no connection to the top tang, no connect to the trigger guard.  It is held in position by the trigger guard clamping down on it.  The mortise is tight east to west, but north to south, the bar could move if not tightly clamped.  I may fix that with a screw or two. 

The only markings on the trigger set is the number 5 on the plate, and the same number on the trigger mainspring.