Thoughts on Patch Boxes - or lack thereof

[Cossack]

I'm having a York-Style rifle built and got to thinking about stylistic choices, and particularly the big question: to include or not include a patch box on my build? I'm interested in building/owning a rifle that is both historically plausible and aesthetically pleasing by my own standards. I love a good patch box, but I also love having a nice big patch of beautiful exposed wood on a gun. So I've been looking around at historical precedent and artistic inspiration.

Now I realize and fully agree that the patch box, especially as it evolved throughout the "Golden Age" is one of the features that sets the American Longrifle apart from other guns. I also think they are often very striking and beautiful, and when done well enhance the beauty of the wood and the lines of the rifle. In some cases I think they are gaudy and distracting, and occasionally downright ugly (mostly on cheaper modern reproductions).

Reading past threads online, I've come across the claim that (to paraphrase): "Historically, longrifles have patch boxes. If you want a proper, historically accurate long rifle, you need a patch box." Exceptions are granted, especially when you get into the Tennessee backwoods, but generally this camp asserts that a "Kentucky," or a Pennsylvania long rifle without a patch box is missing something.

Here is my thesis: While non-patch box rifles were less common than rifles with patch boxes, they were not rare. I think they are under-represented in much of the literature on the topic. The decorated patch box is rightly considered a trademark feature of the American longrifle, but because of that, literature on the topic tends to leave out the examples without them. They were around.

For example, Kindig's "Thoughts on the Kentucky Rifle" - one of the foundational works on the long rifle - features no York rifles without patch boxes. In fact, while I didn't do a complete search, I don't think he has any rifles in that book without them. However, this makes sense, because Kindig's stated purpose was to examine the Kentucky Rifle as a work of art, and so naturally he focused on the most artistically expressive examples. However, a look through James Whisker's more focused work, "Gunsmiths of York County" shows at least nine York rifles without patch boxes that stretch from the Revolutionary period up to the end of the flint era. Shumway, in RCA vol. II includes a York rifle (#90) that he thinks is pre-revolutionary without a patch box. I left out any guns that had primarily fowler features (such as lacking a cheek rest or a grip extension of the trigger guard). I focused on York rifles because that's my area of interest at the moment and also the area where I have the most specialized literature.

My purpose here is not to start an argument, but to have a fun and interesting discussion, and hopefully to learn a thing or two. I am also not looking for someone to tell me whether or not to have a patchbox on my own rifle or rifles - I can make that choice for myself. I'm also not trying to put up an elaborate defense of leaving off a patch box from a build. I just was thinking about this, and thought it would be an interesting discussion.

I originally posted this on the Muzzleloading forum, but I copied it here because I appreciate the erudite crowd on this site. I hope no one minds me double-dipping.

[Stoner creek]

 When looking at original pieces the only reference we have are surviving guns. Many of the fancy guns were owned by and cared for by those with perhaps better means than the utility grade guns which were used by those who used them regularly as a tool. Couple that with obsolescence during the mid to late 19th century and recycling during the 40s and I’m sure that the old plain guns fell by the wayside.
 Patchbox or no? Just like today. Correct on both counts.

[Cossack]

When looking at original pieces the only reference we have are surviving guns. Many of the fancy guns were owned by and cared for by those with perhaps better means than the utility grade guns which were used by those who used them regularly as a tool. Couple that with obsolescence during the mid to late 19th century and recycling during the 40s and I’m sure that the old plain guns fell by the wayside.
 Patchbox or no? Just like today. Correct on both counts.

Good point, but it makes me think of something else I meant to add in the original post - I would have thought that the guns without patchboxes would be what we often call "barn guns" or Schimmels" - very simple and minimal, but many of the guns in my York book without patch boxes have some very nice carving and other nice touches. Others were quite minimalistic, but that wasn't the rule.

[Eric Kettenburg]

Exactly.  You can't make a 'rule' or try to view antique pieces through a 21st century lens.  It's great to try to do so if you want to publish and create neat little categories like drawers in a filing cabinet, but that's not the reality.  For example, you mentioned 'shimmels' or 'barn guns.'   Those are both modern terms.  And what constitutes such a rifle?  If it has a wood box, is it still a shimmel?  What if the rifle utilizes a sideplate?  There is no definitive way to categorize these pieces in a way that could be divided into sharp delineations.  Many have tried.  Consider the concept of survival percentages; what might such percentages be?  What has not survived? 

[Frozen Run]

I'm confused by your first couple of sentences, are you having a rifle built or are you building it yourself?

[Cossack]

I'm confused by your first couple of sentences, are you having a rifle built or are you building it yourself?

Sorry - I realize that second sentence makes its unclear. I'm having one built, and I'm thinking about the options I'm asking the builder to consider.

I'm also slowly destroying a Chambers York kit with my own two hands, but that one came with a patch box already cut, so it's beside the point.

[alacran]

I don't like metal patch boxes. I think Kindig had a fetish about them. He only shows a handful of guns with them.
I doubt that he would have bought a rifle without a box.
Your predicament is, if you know of any York rifles that didn't have them.
I built myself a Bucks County rifle, so I felt obliged to put a side opening patch box on it. I haven't seen any BC guns without them, and a side opening box is a distinguishing feature.
















unty rifle

[Cossack]

I don't like metal patch boxes. I think Kindig had a fetish about them. He only shows a handful of guns with them.
I doubt that he would have bought a rifle without a box.
Your predicament is, if you know of any York rifles that didn't have them.
I built myself a Bucks County rifle, so I felt obliged to put a side opening patch box on it. I haven't seen any BC guns without them, and a side opening box is a distinguishing feature.
















unty rifle

I'd love to see your rifle. I went back and forth for a long time trying to decide between a Bucks Co. and York style rifle. Incidentally, RCA number 59 doesn't have a patch box. Shumway put it in the Lehigh chapter, but it has that characteristic Bucks Co. profile. I know they're next door anyway and some authors don't make any real distinction between the schools. But like you, I'd probably put that side folding patch box on.

[Mike Brooks]

In my casual observation, KY rifles with out boxes tend to have octagon  to round smooth bored barrels. As a side note, I'm considering making myself a rife with a  4 piece box and soldering the whole thing together with nonfunctional  release button making the whole box nothing but decoration. The brass boxes always cease to work here in the Midwest with the change of season anyway. Btw I like the looks of engraved brass boxes but can't find a practical use for them

[Eric Kettenburg]

As a side note, I'm considering making myself a rife with a  4 piece box and soldering the whole thing together with nonfunctional  release button making the whole box nothing but decoration.

Someone down the line will drive themselves completely insane trying to figure out how to open it. 

[Cossack]

In my casual observation, KY rifles with out boxes tend to have octagon  to round smooth bored barrels.

Looking back in the York book, it looks like that's true of many of them. It's hard to tell in a lot of the photos and the books doesn't tell on most of them.

[FALout]

I’m having the same thoughts on a Virginia style hunting rifle I’m building for myself.  I’ve made the patch box, the wood is nothing great, just plain sliced walnut, I usually put one most rifles I’ve built, but I’m leaning toward not putting it in.  I don’t think it’s laziness, yea I want to get it wrapped up, but……we’ll see.

[JTR]

In my casual observation, KY rifles with out boxes tend to have octagon  to round smooth bored barrels.

Mr. Brooks is correct on this. If you stick to say no later than about 1820s, pre-percussion, most rifles that have survived (rifled full octagon barrel, front and rear sights) usually have a patchbox. Buck and Ball guns, as I've heard them called (octagon to round smooth bore barrels) generally don't.
No doubt some rifles were made without patchbox, and no doubt more than a few have been lost down through time, so I can only go by what's left and what I've seen and owned over the years. In the end, if you want a rifle without a patchbox, go for it and don't worry what others might think.
John

[alacran]

I don't like metal patch boxes. I think Kindig had a fetish about them. He only shows a handful of guns with them.
I doubt that he would have bought a rifle without a box.
Your predicament is, if you know of any York rifles that didn't have them.
I built myself a Bucks County rifle, so I felt obliged to put a side opening patch box on it. I haven't seen any BC guns without them, and a side opening box is a distinguishing feature.
















unty rifle

I'd love to see your rifle. I went back and forth for a long time trying to decide between a Bucks Co. and York style rifle. Incidentally, RCA number 59 doesn't have a patch box. Shumway put it in the Lehigh chapter, but it has that characteristic Bucks Co. profile. I know they're next door anyway and some authors don't make any real distinction between the schools. But like you, I'd probably put that side folding patch box on.

First in our library under York guns, there is a smooth rifle that has no patch box. There are no photos of the forestock, so can't say it is full octagon or not. It is assumed to be made by Frederick Sell. Sell F. 101221-1.
I won't repeat everything in the entry, but it is called a smooth rifle, as well as a rifle by the respondents.
This was meager attempt at a Bucks. I forged the BP, and made the patch box.

[thecapgunkid]

They look great, but I have never used the ones I made or that came with my rifle in the field or at the range.  I just bought a Chambers Marshall stock and am just doing some carving on the dummy, raised wooden patchbox lid that comes with the stock.

You have way too much advice here from a lot of competent people.  Weigh it and wing it.

[rich pierce]

My sense is that a rifled barrel was a big upgrade with corresponding price increase over a “smooth rifle”. So a customer was already paying a high price and so a patchbox may have been expected on rifles. I’d be interested to see if the York rifle- built guns without patchboxes tend to be smoothbores.

Of course there are a good many Lehigh and Bucks County smooth rifles with all the bells and whistles so it’s not a rule by any means.

[JTR]

Seems to me that the main determining factor is whether the barrel is full length octagon.
Bucks County is a good example. All that I have seen are full octagon barrels, smoothbore, and all but a couple have had patchboxes.
In the end, it doesn't matter much. 

[martin9]

I really like Richs' explanation...it seems to make the most sense to me. sort of a way to show you paid more for a rifle without having to say it. Wonder if it ever stopped a smoothbore totin' fella from taking a pot shot at a guy when he saw that shiny patchbox and knew he was toting a rifle

 A lot of things are still that way. Guitars with block inlays, violins with fluted F holes automatically tell you it is higher quality. Badges on cars saying it's the upgraded model. One little badge on a car will let you know it's got a bigger engine, better suspension and all the bells and whistles.

[hanshi]

Patch box or no patch box was an issue I faced on the ones I had built.  PBs can look good or tacky depending on the design and the particular rifle in question.  Currently I have 4 long guns with boxes but two aren't longrifles.  Of the two sporting the boxes one has an older, simple style while the other is a version of the "Daisy" type.  three of the longrifles don't have them at all.

I always carry spare accessories in them but can't even recall the last time I opened one.  So much for them being a requirement on a longrifle.  IMHO they can often enhance a rifles looks but other than that I consider them functionally useless.