He Says He Can Make It Into A Flintlock

[GameStalker]

I came across this ad: https://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-for-sale-online/rifles/muzzleloading-rifles-custom/early-pennsylvania-50-caliber.cfm?gun_id=101483075
He says he can make it into a flintlock.
I have no doubt.
The question is what should a guy pay for such an artistically made FLINTLOCK ?

[smart dog]

Hi Jack,
I would pass on it.  Lots of not very artistic bling but the craftsmanship is not up to the ambitions or price set by the maker.   

dave

[Stoner creek]

Hi Jack,
I would pass on it.  Lots of not very artistic bling but the craftsmanship is not up to the ambitions or price set by the maker.   

dave

 Well stated. My initial thoughts were much more brutally honest.

[rich pierce]

But if a mix of many things fancy but not an ensemble.

[Mike Brooks]

Oops, I just threw up a little bit in my mouth.

[Cossack]

Seems to me to be a lot of European Baroque stuff going on - more early 18th Century, which I can't match with the caplock or trigger guard. But it seems to me to be a bit overboard even for Baroque, which often strayed into the tasteless and overdone.

It needs some cherubs. A chubby baby angel or two would complete the picture.

[Cossack]

It needs some cherubs. A chubby baby angel or two would complete the picture.

Never mind. This detail was not overlooked. I found one on the buttplate.

[DavidC]

Whew, really reminds me of that Boutet fellow Smartdog is often compared with.

I'm no Brooks or Martin but is that rifle not largely an assemblage of parts most here could make if they just vomited money at castings from muzzleloader builder supply?

[GameStalker]

I thank you all for the informed criticism of this rifle. As one who is very new to the study of traditional muzzleloaders, and being drawn very much to flintlock rifles over percussion rifles, I am not sure how I happened onto that ad. I confess to seeing all the detail as overall, looking like functioning art, it being installed on a working rifle. I wrote out a message to the maker about my interest in flintlock rifles and he wrote back saying that he could readily make it into a flintlock. So I thought I'd ask you all how you see this rifle. Why would I NOT take advantage, of the knowledge that you all so earnestly share? I am ill informed right now, but I am no fool. So thanks for all the feedback! 

[Dphariss]

I came across this ad: https://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-for-sale-online/rifles/muzzleloading-rifles-custom/early-pennsylvania-50-caliber.cfm?gun_id=101483075
He says he can make it into a flintlock.
I have no doubt.
The question is what should a guy pay for such an artistically made FLINTLOCK ?

Its not very well done.

[oldtravler61]

  It's a nightmare of gobbly goop... I would not invest a dime on it....!  Oldtravler

[Cossack]

There were definitely some very gaudy guns in central Europe in the 18th C. If you look in the collections of some of the castles and royal armories you'll see some guns  - fusils, fowlers, pistols, and yes, jaeger-type rifles - that have this approach. I have a book of Peter the Great's collections, and some give this gun a run for its money!

In the mid-19th C  - the end of the longrifle period - there was a school of gunmaking that went hog wild with German Silver, well into what I consider the realm of tastelessness, although it's amusing as a study of folk art (See chapter 18 in Merrill Lindsay's "Kentucky Rifle" book). The gun in this ad reminds me of some of the feel of those guns, but the style of the castings (as the maker/seller states) is 18th C. European styling rather than mid 19th C.

If I was doing an 18th C. European style fowler, in walnut of course, I'd consider that entry thimble. I think its cool.

[Stoner creek]

 I’m glad that I don’t own that one. I don’t think that I have enough words in me to sell it. Kinda reminds me of that station wagon in that Vacation movie.

[DavidC]

A FINE EXAMPLE OF WHEN THE GERMAN IMMAGRANTS RAN HEAD FIRST INTO THE EARLY AMERICAN RIFLE

Now you know how it was made!

[bob in the woods]

The Dixon's line, "  Needs to study originals " comes to mind.  A hog covered in dollar store jewelry ?   I feel like I'm getting a rash just looking at it

[DavidC]

I checked out the seller and it seems to be a real person but I'm still having trouble believing this is a person for whom English is a native language. The all caps combined with the sheer number of words misspelled in the ad, I'm not sure the original poster of this thread isn't just playing a joke.

[hanshi]

I most assuredly am not that familiar with the art of gun building, but...
I agree with the previous comments and after viewing the photos I think those comments were rather kind.  No matter how much lipstick you put on a pig, it's still a PIG!

[martin9]

If he'd work those lock panels way down and if he used a plain buttplate, triggerguard and 2 thimbles it'd be an OK rifle. No carving, no inlays of any kind..... The poor hardware and decoration choices are really what ruins it. good example of a "reach exceeds grasp" gun.

[oldtravler61]

  Well one way to look at it. You'd have one fancy canoe
paddle....

[Dan'l 1946]

I came across this ad: https://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-for-sale-online/rifles/muzzleloading-rifles-custom/early-pennsylvania-50-caliber.cfm?gun_id=101483075
He says he can make it into a flintlock.
I have no doubt.
The question is what should a guy pay for such an artistically made FLINTLOCK ?

  For that kind of money, you can have a really fine flintlock rifle. Or a Jim Kibler rifle kit and one of his new fowler kits when they come along. And enough money left over for many years worth of real black powder. Dan

[GameStalker]

Again friends,

I appreciate your appraisal of the rifle I asked about. The learning process is enjoyable for me.

[Darrin McDonal]

There is nothing Pennsylvania let alone America about that rifle. Totally misrepresented.

[utseabee]

Again friends,

I appreciate your appraisal of the rifle I asked about. The learning process is enjoyable for me.

Jack,

   My advice would be to order some books like Rifles of Colonial America, Thoughts on the Kentucky rifle in it's Golden Age, or one of the many other books out there. Depending on where you live, maybe attend one of the long rifle shows. You can then figure out which style long rifle you like best and go from there. The Kentucky Rifle Foundation also has CD's for sale with lot's of color pictures on them. I would probably steer away from purchasing a rifle from the auction or selling websites until you have an idea of what style you like or have someone to help you determine the quality of the piece.

[t.caster]

I like the nose cap....but I about hurled when I saw the lock panels and stock architecture. I agree a hog with a lot of shiny cheap jewelry.

[Ken G]

How do pin inlays protect the stock?  Perhaps this is a selling point I have missed on my Southern guns.

Respectfully,
Ken

BARREL HAS PIN INLAYS TO PROTECT THE STOCK