Author Topic: Indian trade horns  (Read 1585 times)

Offline Austin

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Indian trade horns
« on: May 19, 2022, 03:43:35 PM »
Anyone have a picture or description of what a powder horn that would have been sold/ traded on the frontier looked like? Im sure it was functional and easily produced…
Eat Beef

Offline rich pierce

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Re: Indian trade horns
« Reply #1 on: May 19, 2022, 04:08:07 PM »
Anyone have a picture or description of what a powder horn that would have been sold/ traded on the frontier looked like? Im sure it was functional and easily produced…
I think we can only speculate that they had turned plugs and could hold a good bit of powder. Were the nicer turned horns with applied tips just for people of means?
When we do see horns with what appear to be Native American decorations many of these do seem simple, with flat plugs and a staple.

It’s also hard to know which horns were “trade horns”.
https://americanindian.si.edu/collections-search/.   (Search for powder horn)
« Last Edit: May 19, 2022, 04:12:37 PM by rich pierce »
Andover, Vermont

Offline Austin

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Re: Indian trade horns
« Reply #2 on: May 19, 2022, 04:20:21 PM »
How would the strap have been attached? My guess is they would have used the fastest, least cost methods available…. I don’t know what that was for sure?
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Offline rich pierce

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Re: Indian trade horns
« Reply #3 on: May 19, 2022, 04:56:46 PM »
How would the strap have been attached? My guess is they would have used the fastest, least cost methods available…. I don’t know what that was for sure?
Simplest idea a staple in the butt plug and a step at the spout. https://www.skinnerinc.com/auctions/2524B/lots/827
Andover, Vermont

Offline okieboy

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Re: Indian trade horns
« Reply #4 on: May 19, 2022, 10:21:45 PM »
 Agree with Rich about how, but wonder if they would have been sold without a strap and the buyer would provide their own.
Okieboy

Offline RAT

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Re: Indian trade horns
« Reply #5 on: May 19, 2022, 11:12:35 PM »
For photos see page 121 of "Trade Guns of the Hudson's Bay Company 1670-1970" by S. James Gooding.
Bob

Offline Notchy Bob

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Re: Indian trade horns
« Reply #6 on: May 20, 2022, 04:38:00 AM »
There was a very interesting article in the Spring 2008 issue of the Museum of the Fur Trade Quarterly, "What the Indians wanted and what they didn't want - 1843."  The bulk of the article was a letter from Alfred Brunson, Indian Agent at LaPointe, Wisconsin, to Territorial Governor J.D. Doty, dated January 10, 1843.  So, the items mentioned were issued as annuity payments rather than trade goods, but Mr. Brunson seemed to genuinely care about the people's needs. 

Among the many other items mentioned, Brunson said, "They want no more Sportsmans powder horns, or shot pouches, give them ox horns & they can make their own powder horns."

I don't know if this is a "trade" horn or not, but this pouch and horn set, from the Sioux, is in the Smithsonian:



This Assiniboine outfit is from the American Musem of Natural History:



There are a lot of native horns in museums, although it's hard to say which ones are trade horns, versus those obtained in raids or battles, or horns made by their owners. 

Notchy Bob
"Should have kept the old ways just as much as I could, and the tradition that guarded us.  Should have rode horses.  Kept dogs."

from The Antelope Wife

Offline Austin

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Re: Indian trade horns
« Reply #7 on: May 22, 2022, 08:31:51 PM »
Great! Thanks!
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Offline Jeff Murray

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Re: Indian trade horns
« Reply #8 on: May 23, 2022, 03:37:28 AM »
It might also depend on what you describe as frontier.  When Kentucky and Ohio were considered frontier, access to "manufactured" horns with turned plugs was likely much more accessible.  As you move west to the mountains, function likely overcame fashion.  Fur trappers might go months without access to powder so capacity was also an issue unless they were traveling with a well supplied brigade.  They needed hardy gear that could endure constant exposure to the elements.

Offline B.Barker

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Re: Indian trade horns
« Reply #9 on: May 28, 2022, 07:14:31 AM »
Austin, someone did a talk on Indian trade horns at one of the old woodland Indian conferences. I don't remember the particulars of the talk now. He used old day books and lists from Indian traders. What I do remember from the talk was powder horns were listed and sold or traded by how much powder they held. I think they started at 1/2 pound and went to 1-1/4 or 1-1/2 pounds.