New look for a Late Ketland lock

[Ken G]

Might be a little premature to post but it seems like it will work.   A Chambers Late Ketland face change.  The new cocks are from Chris Hirsh.  Very nice castings btw and great service.  The Double Throated cock is the Elwell. 1 7/16" throw.  The Pigeon Breasted cock is the Trade Cock #5.  It's hard to beat the Late Ketland on a Southern rifle but with a little work you make a entirely different looking lock.   

Cheers,
Ken

[Angus]

Ken,
Thanks for sharing. Nice variations to the classic.

[Daniel Coats]

I like where this is going! 

[smoke and flames]

Now that is a really great transformation. The lock now looks like the one on my John Moll rifle.

[Bob Roller]

Excellent. I have always preferred the double throated or re-enforced cock because they are never likely to break.The last 2 flintlocks I made were based on the L&R Durs Egg and one had a DT cock they call 0-1 and it is a really good one. My Ketland was entirely different in size and appearance and no external parts available for several years and the moulds are in limbo.One of the top makers here used that cock on a Chambers late Ketland and it was a really good looking job.The only thing I can see that to me was and is a problem is the shallow jaw depth on both mine and one of these.The top jaw screw and leather cushion leaves little room for the flint.I use the German white gates for their uniform size and performance when the frizzen was right My partial solution was to use a milling machine and make a half round cut in the vertical top jaw support and while clamped in the vise I center drilled the loer jaw and the drilled and tapped it to 10x32.
Good luck on this pretty lock and it should be a welcome addition to what is now available.
Bob Roller

[Ken G]

Thanks Bob.  I was hoping you would comment.  It does have a shallow jaw depth and might be a little picky on flint shape.  I'm happy to have the extra visual options for the tried and true Chamber's Ketland internals though. 

Just FYI for anyone doing the same conversion.  The Chambers top jaw cannot be reshaped and used.  The hole for the jaw screw is drilled too far back on the top jaw will have a gap behind it. 

Ken

[Pukka Bundook]

Bob,
The best as you know for not breaking, is the French cock, that comes to rest with the throat of the cock on the pan fence.
I do like the high breasted cock above!  Really "modernises" the looks!

[David Rase]

Ken, not trying to steal your thread but I wanted to post a photo of a late Ketland that I modified a few years back for my Gillespie.  Bought a double throated cock and top jaw from  Jerry Devaudreuil.  I purchase 3 additional sets of cocks and top jaws knowing his supply was going to dry up.  Nice to know that Chris's casting works well or this modification.  I bought one of Chris's breasted cocks at CLA last year but have yet to use it.
David

[Ken G]

David,

Not stealing my thunder.  I saw your post when looking into doing my conversion.  Looks great and was an inspiration to give it a try.  I thought I would still post the information since I used Chris's castings which are readily available from a board member. 

Cheers,
Ken

[Bob Roller]

That's the one I used a lot of but the Ketland plate was different and a big pan.Jerry was afflicted with adult dementia and it was what made my own mother into a sad example of humanity.She thought I was her brother who died in 1978 but did recognize her only great grand daughter who was only 4 at that time.Jerry owned the moulds that were were used for parts I bought such as 2 different Hawken hammers
and one Hawken plate from a J&S in Texas.The other was from the Carson rifle.Also the Shoults,Maslin and several other former Russ Hamm
locks.There are a lot of other ML items that I never used like the internal parts for these locks that are now on the last few shots.
Lisa Kindig told me she gets requests for these parts but nothing is available and all these moulds are in limbo pending possible purchase from someone in Jerry Devaudreuil"s family.This is all the info I have at this time.The Shoults lock could be sold as a kit because everything was cast except the screws.Same goes for the Hamm locks but the internals were sub standard due to shrinkage.
Bob Roller
I used the Maslin top jaw on this cock.

[cshirsch]

Glad it worked out!   Chris
www.texasguntrade.com 

[cshirsch]

This is the Elwell lock I made the molds from.  The castings have no engraving and are smooth.

[rsells]

Attached is a photo of the late Ketland with a double throat cock that I put on an early Hawken flint I made for Don Stith.  It worked out well, and I have another rifle like this in process for my own use that has one of Bob Roller locks he made using the late Ketland plate and frizzen.  I look forward to getting it finished.
                                                                                  Roger Sells

[rwgearhart]

 I had been contemplating ordering the same parts from Chris to modify my late Ketland. Thanks for sharing.

[Bob Roller]

IF I were going to hunt with a flintlock I would prefer the double throated cock above any gooseneck type.
I have never liked using the flash fence as a brake.Looking at the Elwell lock ALMOST prompts me to revive
lock making but not quite.One of the last 2 flintlocks I made had the L&R 0-1 cock and went with a conventional
Durs Egg.Good looking lock I thought.
Bob Roller