The "Woodsrunner" has Arrived....

[Mike Brooks]

I hate enthusiasm. 

[frankie]

looks really nice.

[G_T]

I like the looks of this one... so I preordered, in 54. IIRC the original was .55?

Gerald

[Mike payne]

Anyone know the dimensions of the buttplate?

[Rwnblack]

I just placed an order for a 50 cal in extra fancy maple.  It will make a great Christmas project, I can’t wait!
I spent the weekend shooting my 45 and 58 Kiblers.  Great guns all around.  I used the SMR on our trail walk shoot and it was perfect fit for that long walk.  I did double charge it by accident 125 gr of 3 F makes you sit up and pay attention to that light rifle.

[Mike Brooks]

Is this considered a "YEE HAW" gun or just regular?

[Bob Gerard]

Mike, if you built it then it would be a “Mega Yee Haw” rifle!

[kentuckyrifleman]

Looks like I know what my first longrifle build will be....

Good looking rifle.

[flehto]

DavidC....First off my surname is spelled "Lehto". I actually don't have any personal issues w/ Jim...like most of the ALR members, he's a good guy. My thoughts are that one learns so little from assembling his kits. Even w/ my serious case of macular degeneration,  I probably could assemble one {going blind eventually}......this is not an offer.

Whether Jim's  kits  are a plus or a negative for  the  hobby of BUILDING  MLers is yet to be determined....as I said before, Kibler Kits saturating the market could be harmful to the BUILDERS of 1-4 guns / year in that they might have difficulty selling their builds.....even w/ lowered prices. Some assemblers of Kibler Kits are selling them as a business which could also add  to the market saturation.

These views evidently aren't popular and I know this, but only time will tell. If ALR ends up being a "kit" building website?......Fred

[flinchrocket]

Fred, I think your missing something. The kit is not designed for people who already know what they are doing. I gives someone the chance to see how a flintlock function’s in relation to all it’s parts, then they will be able to advance the skills required to build from a blank. Also, they will have handled a gun that feels like an original and knows what it should feel like. I think in the long run Kibler kits will be a big boost to muzzleloading. Just look at the new people on this website wanting to learn.

[rich pierce]

In my view it would be sad if innovation, design, and bringing high quality new products to market was considered a negative thing.

The topic here is an announcement of a new, apparently high quality product. Please discuss the product.


Another topic addressed whether or not to have a separate forum for:
Kibler kits- decision is No
Kits in general- decision is No

Grousing for the sake of having one’s negative feelings heard really doesn’t contribute much to the forum or encourage folks new to the site or the craft.

[oldtravler61]

  Rich I think your answer is spot on. I agree we don't need a special forum for kits.
 The Big thing is if you don't like working with kits so what. Just do what you want. For the people who do so who cares. It's their money, their gun.
 What Jim has done for the B.P. community is great. We are getting more people involved in the sport. Plus these new people are owning a very authentic gun to be proud of.
 Do I think it will effect the custom gun builders. Hardly if they make a great gun. People will still be buying from them.
 There is a market for custom gun makers to use the kits Jim offers. For that matter so does Chambers and others.
 You basically have a blank canvas to work with. To allow for carving, engraving or more.
 So what's not to like...?   Oldtravler

[bob in the woods]

Living where I do, it was extremely difficult to get to see and handle "originals"
Many of the guns built by the shooters around here were typical of the 70's in that they were "contemporary" designs .   The first few I built for myself were nothing like what we expect today in terms of architecture . Most had straight sided barrels, and Siler locks.  After purchasing RCA 1 and 2  I got more of a sense of what the old guns were actually like and I was much happier with my progress . I purchased some Chambers kits to get more of an idea what they were supposed to look like, but I would have saved myself a lot of $ and time if there was a Kibler available back then .  I think they are a real boon for anyone starting out who wants to do a build. 

[flehto]

Rich Pierce.....your last paragraph sounds like negative, constructive  "opinions" are "verboten" on ALR?....Fred

[rich pierce]

Rich Pierce.....your last paragraph sounds like negative, constructive  "opinions" are "verboten" on ALR?....Fred

I think you made that up just now. PM sent.

[ScottNE]

DavidC....First off my surname is spelled "Lehto". I actually don't have any personal issues w/ Jim...like most of the ALR members, he's a good guy. My thoughts are that one learns so little from assembling his kits. Even w/ my serious case of macular degeneration,  I probably could assemble one {going blind eventually}......this is not an offer.

Whether Jim's  kits  are a plus or a negative for  the  hobby of BUILDING  MLers is yet to be determined....as I said before, Kibler Kits saturating the market could be harmful to the BUILDERS of 1-4 guns / year in that they might have difficulty selling their builds.....even w/ lowered prices. Some assemblers of Kibler Kits are selling them as a business which could also add  to the market saturation.

These views evidently aren't popular and I know this, but only time will tell. If ALR ends up being a "kit" building website?......Fred

I have a couple pieces under construction, aiming to make as many bits myself and carving from a blank — bearing in mind that I couldn’t make an even-surfaced table if I had to! The thought of making* my own simply appeals to me, even though I’m the last person who should be butchering an innocent piece of maple. Those who both want and can afford fine pieces from top makers will continue to seek them out, if that’s what appeals to them. I would guess that a significant percentage of the market for Kibler kits consists of those who would, if the option presented by a Kibler kit didn’t exist, simply do without altogether. With the Kibler kits, the draw they feel to muzzleloading is met by a fine product, so I’d say it’s good for the hobby; some will inevitably be drawn to buy a piece such as the artisan builders create. In any event, the more people drawn into the wider hobby of historically-oriented muzzleloading, the better.

*”making” in the sense that I’m assembling from parts bought and parts made — some of course dispute where the line is between “making” and “assembling” resides, which I am cognizant of.

[DavidC]

I'll be carving up a woods runner for my wife who remains my perpetual excuse for why I need at least two of every caliber or style, otherwise I'm surprised a smoothbore wasn't realized first but I suppose this kit offers something different with much the same resources Jim already has.

Many other kits go together with the same mix of ease and irritation and I see no reason to complain. Either Jim's customer will get bit and be a customer of others or they'll have a quality firelock to keep the past alive.

Even if Jim's grandchildren can access technology that can take models or images and convert them to programmable cam models that can run down to the finest details on brass they'll still be obviously machine made and would become nothing more than fancy Traditions rifles. I don't think that's the legacy he'll leave. He's an artist who, as a consequence of his art, has mastered the construction of framing blank canvas; another artist is not necessarily less skilled for taking advantage of that canvas and working overtop it.

And these kids must be spending that chipotle money on something. Surely you don't suggest people can't afford luxury purchases?

[Leatherbark]

I've always been a shooter first and a connoisseur of period correctness second (really 3rd or higher LOL). I've shot traditional muzzleloaders since 1975 and flint since 1980. I never forget my muzzleloading roots and still shoot percussion Thompson Centers occasionally. Heck sometimes I've had a hankering to buy me my first muzzleloader. A CVA Kentucky out of nostalgia and bring back old good memories.
I can see a professional builder and a guy that is into historical trekking wanting a rifle/musket that was made exactly like something Boone, Kenton, or Girty would carry back in the day. That is their passion. I'm okay that my Dixie TMR looks sort of like a period correct southern rifle.  I'm also okay that my Kibler SMR is even closer if not correct.
Looking back, I've wasted/spent enough money on muzzleloaders over the years to buy one of the fine rifles Mr. Brooks, Mr. Chambers, or Fred builds.  I wish I had taken that route and become "one" with the rifle. Sort of like Mark Baker's Moriah instead of dabbling in so many.  Now I need to sell a few to buy that Woodsrunner!.................Bob

[Craig Wilcox]

I haven't really built a kit rifle before - one kit pistol back in about 1973 doesn't really  count.  So, with the nerve damage finally making it's way to my hands and arms, I am going to make myself a nice Kibler lightweight rifle with a moderately big bore.  Then make a BIGGER bore telling everyone about it.

Really, I feel that Jim is doing our sport - and livelihood for many - a big favor by bringing our longrifles to the attention of people who otherwise wouldn't have thought of them.  If it is anything like the Kibler's I've seen, it will draw attention like ... well, flies to honey.

[DavidC]

So does anyone have photos of original guns of this type?

[rich pierce]

So does anyone have photos of original guns of this type?

David, the Woodsrunner rifle is a well-known early rifle that has been published in articles in Muzzke Blasts back in the day by Wallace Gusler and James Whisker. It has a close relative known as the “Feather rifle” which I stubbornly think looks earlier. Both are surmised to be Virginia guns from the 1770s give or take a few years.

[Frank]

With Jim’s latest offerings, he has all the bases covered for me. I have been building guns since 1975 and have zero desire to go back to that tedious process. Jim Kibler kits , all the way for me.

[Dennis Glazener]

I built a rifle using a pattern made from the Feather Rifle. Fred Miller had the pattern back in the early 2000's. It wasd a pattern Fred Miller made from the remnants of a rifle that Reeves Goreing owned. Reeves made parts for the flintlock and foolish me I just bought the plate to use as a pattern for modifying an early Leyland lock which was fairly close but a little longer than the original.

Same basic profile as the Woodsrunner rifle.
Dennis

David, the Woodsrunner rifle is a well-known early rifle that has been published in articles in Muzzke Blasts back in the day by Wallace Gusler and James Whisker. It has a close relative known as the “Feather rifle” which I stubbornly think looks earlier. Both are surmised to be Virginia guns from the 1770s give or take a few years.

[rich pierce]

There are several discussions of the feather rifle and the original Woodsrunner rifle. One is here https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=49261.0. It has a few pictures.

[Enfield]

It seems the Woodsrunner is now available??? On the Website a delivery duration if 6 month is mentioned.