End Mill, Dovetail Cutter, Sizes For Sights And Under Lugs

[Mule Brain]

I have a nice big drill press, which I just ordered a milling adapter for.

What size end mill, and dovetail cutters should I get for cutting the dovetails on the barrels?

Thanks

 

 

[Daryl]

I would go with a 1/4" or 5/16" cutter but maybe that's just me. Most sights have 3/8" dovetail bases, or larger.

[borderdogs]

I would mill a slot slightly undersized then run a dovetail mill through the slot to bring it to size. Not sure what drill press you are getting but milling with a drill press can leave some chatter
Rob

[bluenoser]

What borderdogs recommends works well for me and saves considerable stress on the dovetail cutter.  I would not go any larger than 1/4" on the end mill to cut the initial slot and wouldn't hesitate to go a tad smaller since you can take multiple passes to increase width.  Brownell's has a good selection of dovetail cutters.  Dovetail cutters are quite fragile and I would be concerned about using one in a drill press with a cross slide.  It doesn't take much chatter to break a flute.  It would likely be safer to mill the slot and then file the dovetail with a safe-edge file.  A safe-edge file is easily made by grinding the teeth off one face of a three-corner file.  No need to buy an expensive dovetail file.

[Mule Brain]

I have already been making dovetails by hand, and use a safe side angle file. I think that is the best approach, end mill then file the dovetail portion.

Thanks

[P.W.Berkuta]

A drill press is not designed for side milling only downward vertical and angled thrusts . Some SMALL amount of side loading can be done but you run the risk of the chuck's arbor shaft falling out of the spindle this will in turn damage your cutter, work, and maybe you . With that said many people have use their drill presses as light duty "milling machines" . Be very careful

[Bill Raby]

I would not mill anything with a drill press.

[tallpine]

If you attempt to mill in a drill press the chuck WILL fly off and destroy your end mill and possibly your work. I speak from experience, I bought a milling machine.

[44-henry]

Some of the older heavy drill presses had a threaded collar that safely secured the chuck to the spindle for use as a mill, or more commonly a shaper. That would be the only setup I would feel comfortable using. Having a drill chuck dismount at high speeds is no joke. Even with the six Bridgeport mills I have in my university lab I have to watch out with students trying to use the drill chucks to hold end mills. Same danger as the chuck is only held on by a friction fit. Aside from that drill chucks are horrible ways to hold end mills, just too much runout.  A delicate dovetail cutter won't last long with that holding method and the general lack of rigidity in the setup.

[Bob Roller]

I used my heavy old Delta drill press at full speed but ONLY FOR MILLING A FLY SLOT in the shape of a "V" in 1144 "Stressproof"and I used a 3/32 three flute stub end mill for a cut only .075 deep.My drill press has a locking collar on the chuck as an added safety to keep it on the tapered end of the spindle.NO Jacobs type chuck will hold the end mills with a 3/8 or larger shank and ANY side or slab milling will end up with broken,costly cutters and a ruined project.I have a CT&E (Chicago Tool&Engineering)actually made in the USA in 1964 as was the drill press.It has rotary and in and out plus cross travel left to right also known as X and Y.Tallpine and P.W.Berkuta are absolutely right.
Back in the 50's and 60's the versatile adjustable tables for drill presses were advertised as "Milling Tables"and that's the way Sears& Roebuck advertised them.I knew better but wanted the versatility offered by the device.Every lock and trigger I made since 1964 were the result of this machine.I mill the trigger bars I now make on a 1967 Clausing tool room milling machine I bought that year.The mills spindle has heavy bearings and uses collets which are collapsable,tapered tool holders and each size (diameter) of end mill requires that size and they are slightly collapsed by the taper in the spindle and pulled up tight by a draw bar.Spindle speeds are another thing.Most drill presses are designed for wood working and run too fast even at low speeds for dovetail cutters and standard end mills which usually are on 3/8 or
1/2 inch shanks.I doubt the rigidity of any drill press made today to function as a substitute for a good milling machine and they are TWO
different things in spiteof similat appearence.
Bob Roller

[flehto]

I've got a fairly heavy  duty drill press but use it for only drilling. All my dovetails were done by hand and to me anyways, are an enjoyable part of gun building. I also made the sights...both front and rear.  Derived a lot of satisfaction when the sights were installed. Used a dovetail chisel for the bbl lugs which were staked in for permanence......Fred

[Scota4570]

Aside from risk of the chuck departing the spindle, a drill press is not very rigid.  Do use a small end mill to start the slot.  Then use the dovetail cutter.  Expect the dove tail cutter to break due to vibrations.  I am not sure how you will accurately set the depth.  Do not use carbide cutters, they are more brittle and best suited for rigid set ups. 

If you are really into the hobby get an old milling machine.  I have an wells-Index model 40.  It is a relic.  It was cheap.  It has mass.  Mass is important.  It is smaller than a full sized machine so, it fits in the my garage.  Such a machine will open up a world of projects. 

http://www.vintagemachinery.org/photoindex/detail.aspx?id=33911

[Jim Kibler]

I had a Wells Index mill too.  I forget the model number.  Just gave it away to an Amish friend that is going to power it with a hydraulic motor.

I think I would forgo the dovetail cutter and just cut the slot something like a 3/16" or maybe 1/4" endmill.  I agree with HSS and if you get them with a tiny corner radius they will last longer.

Jim

[Dennis Glazener]

I would go with a 1/4" or 5/16" cutter but maybe that's just me. Most sights have 3/8" dovetail bases, or larger.

Make sure the milling head has a screw holding it on and not a taper like a drilling chuck. Chuck. Years ago knowing no better I ordered a milling table and fastened  it to the drill press table. Used it a lot milling aluminium parts with end mill held in place in the drill Chuck. One night after using it fairly aggressively, the Chuck came off the tapered drive and that thing flew up the wall, across the work bench and around and round on the floor. All the while that end mill seemed sure to mill out my arms or legs😊 Fortuneately I out danced it and the only damage was a new 4 flute end mill that quickly had it flutes broken off !
Dennis

[bluenoser]

Ha  .. I can relate!
You haven't lived until you have experienced a 1" router bit bouncing around the cabinetmaking shop while rotating at 25,000 RPM. I switched to all 1/2" shanks right after that.

[borderdogs]

Dennis thats a funny story, I have been lucky to have access to a milling machine so I never used a drill press to mill anything. A friend of mine used an old Buffalo drill press as a router on an inlay fora small table top. He had it running at the highest speed for the drill and it worked ok for the plunging but when he tried to mill out the recess it all went to heck in a hand basket. But not as artfully described as yours Dennis,
Rob

[Birddog6]

Take longer to set it up than to do it by hand. I timed it one time & cut & finished 4 underlugs in less than 20 min.  Plus it’s not like you are gonna stand there & cut dovetails in 50 barrels.  Cut them with a hack saw, file with a safe file & go on. Heck fire, Mike Brooks just bites his dovetail slots out 🤷🏻🤣

[Mule Brain]

After hearing all this, I am reevaluating my original plan on using a drill press.

I may invest in a mill, to do the work instead. I want to do other operations as well   

[borderdogs]

You can find old horizontal cheap I saw a Walker-Turner mill not that long ago for $100.00 that one was in a garage sale but it was heavy. A few years ago I sold all my horizontal mills the last one I gave away to  a fellow who wanted to use it to do mortises in wood. Down side on these is their small table but for what you want it for that wouldn't be an issue.
Rob

[Mule Brain]

You can find old horizontal cheap I saw a Walker-Turner mill not that long ago for $100.00 that one was in a garage sale but it was heavy. A few years ago I sold all my horizontal mills the last one I gave away to  a fellow who wanted to use it to do mortises in wood. Down side on these is their small table but for what you want it for that wouldn't be an issue.
Rob

I will keep my eyes out for one, in the meantime I just did them by hand on the current build 

[44-henry]

Cutting dovetails with a horizontal mill would be a neat trick. They did make vertical heads for some of them though. Now if you can find a small shaper you would be good to go.

[borderdogs]

I had two shapers that were made during WW2 and had war production serial numbers on them. I sold both for what would be considered scrap at the price I sold them for. If you could find small ones they would work well for dovetails or slots they have small tables too. 
Rob

[44-henry]

A few years back I started collecting Atlas machine tools. I have a small Atlas 7B shaper sitting in my garage waiting for me to find time to build a proper tool stand for it. Something like that would work fine for doing dovetails in barrels, but for one or two dovetails it would be just as fast (or faster) to simply handcut them when you consider setup time.

[Daryl]

My late hunting buddy had a large floor mounted drill press, large arbor, etc. He used it for cutting dovetails and wore the spindle - or it's mounting. After that, it cut oversized slighlty oblong holes with all drills - kinda  kittywanka & would just break fine bits.

[Sidelock]

I have a nice big drill press, which I just ordered a milling adapter for.

What size end mill, and dovetail cutters should I get for cutting the dovetails on the barrels?

Thanks

 

. My preferred tools and method for cutting dovetails - cut the initial slot on a mill with an end mill fo whatever width you need - using the mill gets the slot square to the barrel and a DRO is handy to get the depth just right.  Can't add anything to what has already been said about attempting to use a drill press in the fashion - I have never tried that one.  I then use safe side files to work out the dovetail.  I found this to be faster than setting up a second cutter in the mill to do the same task.  For years I made safe side files by grinding off two faces of a standard tapered tri-side file - never was that happy with their performance.  Finally got a real dovetail file from Brownell's - night and day difference!