Author Topic: Patch Reading Assistance  (Read 875 times)

Offline JLayne

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Patch Reading Assistance
« on: June 07, 2022, 08:37:28 PM »
Hello all,
I was at the range this week trying to work up loads for my .58 Kibler Colonial and a .40 SMR. Best groups seem to be with 85grns Goex 2f for the Colonial and 60 grns Goex 3F for the SMR. That said, the groups could use improvement.  I used 10 oz denim patching cut at the muzzle for the tests in both rifles. Attached is a pic of the fired patches I was able to locate. Is the fraying around the edges acceptable, or do I need to locate a better patch material?

Thanks in advance.
Jay


Offline D. Taylor Sapergia

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Re: Patch Reading Assistance
« Reply #1 on: June 07, 2022, 08:42:18 PM »
Jay:  what lube are you using and how wet are the patches?  You're getting a bit of scorching, but as long as it's not piercing the material, you're golden.  The fraying around the edges happens as the patch leaves the muzzle, and the gasses behind it blow the loose fibres of cotton away from the patch...quite normal.
D. Taylor Sapergia
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Art is not an object.  It is the excitement inspired by the object.

Offline Robby

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Re: Patch Reading Assistance
« Reply #2 on: June 07, 2022, 08:57:32 PM »
Thank you Taylor, I sometimes wonder about that fraying.
Robby
« Last Edit: June 12, 2022, 06:56:28 PM by Robby »
molon labe
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Offline JLayne

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Re: Patch Reading Assistance
« Reply #3 on: June 07, 2022, 09:02:45 PM »
Hi Taylor,
I am using Mr. Flintlock’s Patch Lube. It comes in a spray bottle, and I have been using 3 pumps of the bottle per patch, although I squeeze some of the excess off between my fingers.

Thanks,
Jay

Offline snapper

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Re: Patch Reading Assistance
« Reply #4 on: June 07, 2022, 10:49:47 PM »
I dont think your patch material type is causing you any accuracy issues.   

I think that there are other areas I would explore for improving accuracy.

Fleener
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Offline recurve

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Re: Patch Reading Assistance
« Reply #5 on: June 08, 2022, 12:52:44 AM »
Look like my patches 10 oz denim try square less edge fraying









Offline Daryl

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Re: Patch Reading Assistance
« Reply #6 on: June 08, 2022, 03:47:18 AM »
In total agreement with Taylor. I am seeing scorching from the grooves, with both sets of patches, more scorching from recurve's patches. 
It isn't horrific/bad, or the patches would be burnt.
Canvas usually frays a bit more than denim from the muzzle blast.
Oh, as well, the higher the muzzle pressure, the more fraying there will be.
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V

Offline walks with gun

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Re: Patch Reading Assistance
« Reply #7 on: June 08, 2022, 04:17:41 AM »
   Seems like a heck of a lot of powder for a .40.   To me the whole idea of small caliber guns was to use a lot less lead and powder.  Just my opinion.

Offline smylee grouch

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Re: Patch Reading Assistance
« Reply #8 on: June 08, 2022, 04:36:37 AM »
The whole idea of working up loads is to find the most accurate load IMHO. Use what ever load shoots the best groups consistently, group after group.

Offline Jeff Murray

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Re: Patch Reading Assistance
« Reply #9 on: June 08, 2022, 08:00:28 AM »
You did not mention what diameter ball you are using.  The fraying seems a little excessive and some pictures look like you are getting some cuts at the junction of the lands and grooves.  Ten thousandths might be a little thin for a 58, depending on the density of the cloth weave and condition of the bore.  Since the rifle is new, you may have some sharp lands that are affecting the patches, possibly at the muzzle.  Maybe a thicker patch and smaller ball would be an interesting comparison.  Just a few thoughts to check out.

Offline flinchrocket

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Re: Patch Reading Assistance
« Reply #10 on: June 08, 2022, 09:57:47 AM »
I think if you reread the OP you will see that he is using 10 oz not.010 patch material. 10 oz denim is around.020 thick, depending on how hard you compress your caliper.

Offline Robby

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Re: Patch Reading Assistance
« Reply #11 on: June 08, 2022, 05:30:53 PM »
With everything the same, I get much less fraying when I use mink oil, a lot less.
Robby
« Last Edit: June 12, 2022, 06:56:45 PM by Robby »
molon labe
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Offline Daryl

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Re: Patch Reading Assistance
« Reply #12 on: June 08, 2022, 07:32:22 PM »
   Seems like a heck of a lot of powder for a .40.   To me the whole idea of small caliber guns was to use a lot less lead and powder.  Just my opinion.

As the OP was using Mr. Flintock lube, a very slippery lube, I would not have been surprised to see him using 65gr. 3F. That is what my rifle with a
Goodoien barrel demanded I use to get the same accuracy as 10gr. less powder with a water based lube. With 2F GOEX, I had to use 75gr. GOEX.
These loads produced 2,240fps in my rifle. I was using a bore sized ball and 10 ounce denim.  Now, there is a difference in measurement of 10 ounce
denim dependent on the manufacturer.  Years ago, the 10 ounce we received from a sewing store here in town, measured .0225" compressed as hard
as I could squeeze the tine together of my calipers, between forefinger and thumb.  This newest batch from a different store, measures .021" with the
same calipers.  I have 3 sets of calipers and with them I get 3 different measurements, so that is also a variable as to what various cloths measure.  I
would suggest that if you are getting some scorching with 10 ounce, then try some 11 ounce denim from Joanne's Fabrics (in the States).
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V

Offline DavidC

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Re: Patch Reading Assistance
« Reply #13 on: June 08, 2022, 07:38:29 PM »
85gr of 2f for a .58 seems low, no? I guess it depends on your shooting preference with regards to range but if you're getting scorching at that charge I'm wondering if your patch material is suitable for heavier loads at longer ranges.

I think people can give you more if you can tell us more about range, and what patches are for which caliber? Are those all for the .40 or a mix between the two?

Offline Not English

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Re: Patch Reading Assistance
« Reply #14 on: June 08, 2022, 08:25:32 PM »
Jay, if it's any help, I shoot 67gr of Goex 3f in my .45 irregardless of the type of lube.

Offline D. Taylor Sapergia

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Re: Patch Reading Assistance
« Reply #15 on: June 08, 2022, 09:44:13 PM »
My accuracy load in all three of my .40 cal rifles is 65 gr. 3Fg, .395" ball and .022" patches (10 oz. denim.)  But I do not use the atomizer on the top of the bottle.  I remove the lid and pour the fluid into a container on top of my patches.  I saturate all the patches I am going to use in a session, then holding the container vertical, I let the extra fluid drain back into the bottle.  I press gently on the patches and squeeze out excess fluid.  But my patches are saturated to the point of dripping wet.  My patches are good for several shots each, if I choose to be cheap with patches and lube. 
D. Taylor Sapergia
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Art is not an object.  It is the excitement inspired by the object.

Offline George Sutton

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Re: Patch Reading Assistance
« Reply #16 on: June 09, 2022, 02:06:47 AM »
Your patches are fine. I shoot 65 grains of 3f in my .58. That's all you need. Are you shooting off a bench? Try letting someone with more flintlock experience shoot it to see if there's any difference in group size.

Offline hanshi

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Re: Patch Reading Assistance
« Reply #17 on: June 10, 2022, 12:35:02 AM »
As previously posted the patches do appear scorched to some degree.  But as long as there are no tears or burn-throughs they will likely work okay.  You might keep trying to find the best (accurate) load rather than settling for merely "okay".  I use two lubes exclusively; TOW mink oil and Hoppes BP Lube.  So one grease lube for hunting and Hoppes for the range.  I patch with canvas in all but two of my guns and can reuse the fired patches.
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Offline Daryl

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Re: Patch Reading Assistance
« Reply #18 on: June 10, 2022, 08:00:54 PM »
The top 2 and bottom left target were shot with re-claimed and re-lubed patches.
The bottom right-hand target was shot with re-lubed patches used for the other targets.
These are my last 4 targets from the May postal shoot & are my best targets that month.


Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V