Author Topic: How to fix this broken trigger guard  (Read 5065 times)

Offline Steeltrap

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How to fix this broken trigger guard
« on: July 06, 2022, 10:12:12 PM »
I was (for the 3rd and final time) working on my 50 Cal flint pistol. I was fitting the trigger guard and when I gave it a bit of a "tweek" to bend it.....snap.  >:(

Now, I know one option would be to just get another trigger guard and start all over. Or I could get it TIG welded (I cannot weld). I was thinking perhaps I could solder it.....but would likely need silver solder. Would a propane torch provide sufficient heat for silver solder?

Or should I just look at TIG.....or drop back 10 and punt with a new TG?


Offline Stoner creek

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Re: How to fix this broken trigger guard
« Reply #1 on: July 06, 2022, 10:31:17 PM »
If it’s in stock somewhere, punt!
Adjust the new one with heat if necessary. Cast steel is a $#@*-shoot to work with.
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Offline martin9

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Re: How to fix this broken trigger guard
« Reply #2 on: July 06, 2022, 10:43:44 PM »
+1 for getting a new one. I've welded up a couple cast guards that broke...it welds ugly...at least when I do it....I broke a pistol guard just like that matter of fact.


Offline shortbarrel

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Re: How to fix this broken trigger guard
« Reply #3 on: July 06, 2022, 11:51:05 PM »
who  did you buy the tg from. it is a piece of $#@*. i can see that in the grain

Offline Steeltrap

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Re: How to fix this broken trigger guard
« Reply #4 on: July 07, 2022, 12:03:51 AM »
I can't recall where I bought it from....it's been a long time. IIRC I bought the TG, then it sat around for 5-7 years......


Thanks for the advice. A new one will be ordered.  8)

Offline kutter

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Re: How to fix this broken trigger guard
« Reply #5 on: July 07, 2022, 01:55:26 AM »
A nice clean break.
I'd clamp both pieces securely with the break firmly in place and in alaignment.
A small amt of flux in the joint,,then Hard Solder the break back together
(We used to call it Silver Soldering but that is now the usual term for the non-lead soft solder with tin/silver content)

Once the joint is cooled, file and polish off the excess solder back down to the orig contour and only the thinnest of yellow solder line will remain.
Hardly noticable especially in that position.

Offline Steeltrap

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Re: How to fix this broken trigger guard
« Reply #6 on: July 07, 2022, 02:50:10 PM »
It's worth a shot. When you say "hard solder" you're speaking of what % of silver?
« Last Edit: July 07, 2022, 03:04:38 PM by Steeltrap »

Offline Bob Roller

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Re: How to fix this broken trigger guard
« Reply #7 on: July 07, 2022, 02:56:36 PM »
If currently available,I  would buy another one.

Bob Roller

Offline Steeltrap

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Re: How to fix this broken trigger guard
« Reply #8 on: July 07, 2022, 03:06:01 PM »
I've ordered another one from TOTW. But, now that I have a broken one that I can "experiment" with I may do that. I just don't want to spend $40 on solder for a $20 part.  ;D

Offline FALout

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Re: How to fix this broken trigger guard
« Reply #9 on: July 07, 2022, 03:34:00 PM »
In the pic it looks like you were tweeking on a guard on a rifle with finish on it.  Seems like all that should have been done sooner, sorry if I’m wrong, but that’s how it looks.  If it didn’t fit right then, it likely won’t when soldered.  As for buying the solder, if your gonna work on rifles you might as well get it, you will eventually need it, no sense waiting till you have to have it.  Steel cast guards can suck, I’ve broken a few also, usually there is a void where the part fails. 
Bob

Offline Steeltrap

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Re: How to fix this broken trigger guard
« Reply #10 on: July 07, 2022, 03:57:44 PM »
Yeah.....should'a, would'a, could'a, etc...... ;D

This was my first build that I did 15 years ago....and have re-done and re-fixed three times.

I picked a nice walnut that had a lot of curl in it.....that (for a first build) was the beginning of my mistakes....er....learning curve. Maple is far more forgiving.

I've considered just tossing this walnut stock and redoing a pistol in maple. At least this time I have a better shot at minimal mistakes. But for now I've decide to just go with this stock, shoot it, and if the bug hits me maybe......maybe I'll restock it.

Offline wmrike

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Re: How to fix this broken trigger guard
« Reply #11 on: July 08, 2022, 05:17:54 PM »
So, before working with these cast pieces, is there any sort of heat treating that will mitigate the potential for breakage like this?

Offline Stoner creek

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Re: How to fix this broken trigger guard
« Reply #12 on: July 08, 2022, 06:12:16 PM »
So, before working with these cast pieces, is there any sort of heat treating that will mitigate the potential for breakage like this?

Impossible to say since we don’t know what mix of alloys went into the casting. I have worked with glass hard castings which were nearly impossible to work with as well as steel that was as soft as wrought iron. When I use steel castings I prepare for the worst and maybe I’ll get lucky. I’m pretty sure that Jim Kibler has some control over what is used on his iron mounts but I can’t speak for the supply houses
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Offline P.W.Berkuta

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Re: How to fix this broken trigger guard
« Reply #13 on: July 08, 2022, 07:03:31 PM »
Cast parts weather it being made from brass or steel is a $#@* shoot when it comes to their material content. You just don't know what they are made of. As far as joining the two pieces together and making it look as new - my thought is it is very unlikely. Soft soldering will be weak because of the cross section of the break - hard solder (AKA silver braze) might work but you run the risk of destroying the two surfaces and loose the close fit of the existing joint unless you are careful with the heat.  Plus, there will be a color difference at the joint. Silver brazes are not cheap as you have already pointed out. Since you ordered a new one this would be the time to experiment on the broken part AFTER you get the new part --- good luck.
"The person who says it cannot be done should not interrupt the person who is doing it." - Chinese proverb

Offline kutter

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Re: How to fix this broken trigger guard
« Reply #14 on: July 08, 2022, 10:50:39 PM »
Yes there will be a color difference when using Hard Solder,,it's a shade of yellow.
But you don't use it as a gap filler. You use it to repair the very close fitting break in the part.
A very fine hair line width joint results. That is all the color difference you will see.
Can't deal with that,,buy and fit another guard.

There are hundreds of different alloys of Hard Solder. All for different specific applications in industries and specialtys.
For this type of work, most any general use hard solder will do.


Need some Hard Solder,,I'll send you a couple feet of very fine dia wire Hard Solder wire. It's the same stuff B&L used to put eye glass frames together with when they still made them here in the USA.
I've been using it for many years.
For that job you'll use less than an inch of it.

You need flux of course and that you can but in a small jar at a real welding supply or hardware store.
You'll need a torch that can heat the joint to a bright red color to melt and flow the solder...Propane might not do it these days from my experience,,maybe it will . They seem to be pretty whimpy in the heat dept lately. Maybe just me.

It won;t damage the steel,,just solder the joint back together.

Offline Jim Kibler

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Re: How to fix this broken trigger guard
« Reply #15 on: July 08, 2022, 11:35:28 PM »
I agree, silver braze.  It’s not that hard to do.  If careful, it will be barely noticeable.

Jim

Offline Bob Roller

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Re: How to fix this broken trigger guard
« Reply #16 on: July 09, 2022, 06:54:27 PM »
Once in a while I used to install trigger guards on Hawken triggers and was always careful so to not snap the threaded stud off.
I fixed one by drilling the broken stud out and then putting a screw thru the guard bow and fixed it.It was for my "Hawken" in
1969.
Bob Roller

Offline FALout

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Re: How to fix this broken trigger guard
« Reply #17 on: July 10, 2022, 04:14:21 AM »
Yea, threading those little studs on Hawken guards can be fun. 
Bob

Offline Steeltrap

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Re: How to fix this broken trigger guard
« Reply #18 on: July 10, 2022, 01:01:04 PM »
Yes there will be a color difference when using Hard Solder,,it's a shade of yellow.
But you don't use it as a gap filler. You use it to repair the very close fitting break in the part.
A very fine hair line width joint results. That is all the color difference you will see.
Can't deal with that,,buy and fit another guard.

There are hundreds of different alloys of Hard Solder. All for different specific applications in industries and specialtys.
For this type of work, most any general use hard solder will do.


Need some Hard Solder,,I'll send you a couple feet of very fine dia wire Hard Solder wire. It's the same stuff B&L used to put eye glass frames together with when they still made them here in the USA.
I've been using it for many years.
For that job you'll use less than an inch of it.

You need flux of course and that you can but in a small jar at a real welding supply or hardware store.
You'll need a torch that can heat the joint to a bright red color to melt and flow the solder...Propane might not do it these days from my experience,,maybe it will . They seem to be pretty whimpy in the heat dept lately. Maybe just me.

It won;t damage the steel,,just solder the joint back together.

Your offer is more than generous!  I’ll take you up on it, but I don’t need two feet . One will more than suffice.  I’ve been looking for an excuse to buy. Map-gas torch…and I just found it!  I’ll PM you my address if your offer still stands!  Thanks!!

Offline kutter

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Re: How to fix this broken trigger guard
« Reply #19 on: July 10, 2022, 07:04:47 PM »
PM me a mailing address and I'll send some right out to you..

..It's on the way to you in the USMail
« Last Edit: July 12, 2022, 11:54:36 PM by kutter »

Offline Steeltrap

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Re: How to fix this broken trigger guard
« Reply #20 on: July 11, 2022, 04:01:20 PM »
I’ll post pics…success or failure…when I do this. I’m away at the beach with family for a week. I’ll stab at it when I get home.

Offline Steeltrap

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Re: How to fix this broken trigger guard
« Reply #21 on: July 19, 2022, 02:02:45 PM »
First, thank you Kutter for the silver solder. The two pieces (thick and thin) will likely be a lifetime supply!!

I received what I thought would be a replacement trigger guard from Track. I knew I was guessing it was the correct part.....but that didn't happen. The front part is far to short to match up with the existing one.

Appears I will need to hone my soldering skills and make it work. I'm awaiting arrival of the correct flux from an on-line welding supply place. Should be here in a few days. That will give me more time to recover from my weeks vacation stay with my 3 kids and 7 grandkids. I never thought a house could get so loud......but it was a "good loud". 8)

Offline Steeltrap

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Re: How to fix this broken trigger guard
« Reply #22 on: July 21, 2022, 06:48:12 PM »
Ok....I have the TG in my homemade jig. All clamped in and ready to hard solder.  I'm just waiting on the flux to come.  8)




Offline Steeltrap

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Re: How to fix this broken trigger guard
« Reply #23 on: July 22, 2022, 06:12:36 PM »
Man.....with being on this planet almost 67 years I've never got the hang of working with molten lead....and even worse.....soldering stuff together. I can do some water pipes.......and I even shy away from that.....but I fear I've totally butchered this trigger guard.

I cannot get the solder to flow into the joint. I've heated it up 3 times, on the second and third time the joint held, only to find out it did not hold across the entire joint. The silver solder has mostly stuck to the outside of the TG.

So...here's the ugly pics. Please laugh it all out of your system before you post. I know I'm not at all good in the metal arena.....but I will try.

BTW, I've cleaned up the joint with alcohol (Should'a drank the good kind first) and still no avail. So.....is the piece now to far gone for salvaging? I've tried heating the joint from "behind" with no success at getting the solder to flow. I've tried it with the heat applied to the front with marginal success. I'm not applying the solder with the flame on the piece.

So, as you can see I don't know what I'm doing wrong here. Any input would be helpful. :(


Offline gus123

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Re: How to fix this broken trigger guard
« Reply #24 on: July 22, 2022, 06:51:31 PM »
I had that happen to me before, couldn't get solder to flow as you heat up trigger guard there is a whole bunch of $#@* flowing out of metal and flux won't help. I took my 2 pieces and put in a pot of boiling vinegar and let it set for about 30 minutes, after that it went together easily. you will have to heat up to remove solder/brazing material that is currently there.