Author Topic: Purpose of rear ring on handrail of Appalachian rifles  (Read 4010 times)

Offline Rajin cajun

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 432
  • Ragin Cajun
Re: Purpose of rear ring on handrail of Appalachian rifles
« Reply #25 on: July 15, 2022, 12:11:21 AM »
Rat, nicely done Sir...!



Bob
It’s not the size of the dog in the fight, it’s the size of the fight in the dog !

Offline AZshot

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 700
Re: Purpose of rear ring on handrail of Appalachian rifles
« Reply #26 on: July 15, 2022, 01:19:22 AM »
My long-held theory is that it's a cultural style associated with the Scots. By the 18th century Scottish firearms had developed into a unique style. This included iron frames or stocks on Scottish highland pistols. One identifying characteristics of these highland pistols was the rams head butt finials. Essentially 2 tight scrolls. The American south east, where the iron mounted Appalachian rifle was born, was settled primarily by people from this region of the British isles. Chiefly the Scots-Irish. The famous gunsmithing Bean family were Scots. I also believe this answers the long asked question about why iron mounted rifles are a southern thing not seen in the north. The use of iron mountings being common for Scottish immigrants, but brass mountings being more common for German and English immigrants.

Does anyone else see the similarity?


The Scots (highland) didn't settle mountain NC.  The Scotch-Irish did, from Ulster in Ireland.  Their history of being planted into Ireland is well known, and their migration to America formed the largest group of immigrants in the 18th century.    The highlanders, in much smaller numbers, settled a little bit near the coast of the Colonies, cities like Charleston, SC. Later a few went up into the mountains where the Scotch-Irish had already been for generations.  The history of immigration into Appalachia was by the Scotch-Irish, not the Scottish.
Most of the Appalachian rifle makers where Scotch-Irish who came from northern colonies/states, not directly from Ulster.  They considered themselves Americans very quickly, because their heritage didn't endear them to the Americans when their ships came over.  Dozens of ships full of Scotch Irish every month for decades, in waves.   The big migration of Scotch-Irish (yes, like the liquor) began in the first quarter of the 18th century, and ended in 1776. Migration down into NC and TN was down the Great Wagon Road, and sometimes down the central VA valley.  But usually by 2nd or 3rd generation Scotch-Irish Americans, not immigrants right off the boat.  They settled where they could off the docks, but were always looking for cheaper land and places they could be left alone.  The Germans had all the good land in PA and the English in VA....the Scotch-Irish would move further south, further west, into the mountains, with each new generation.   

Most Appalachian Scotch-Irish didn't know anything about highland Scotland, didn't have any Scottish people in their area, had probably never met a Scott and likely never handled a highland Scottish pistol. Were there a couple that headed into the frontier?  Sure.  Was Bean's grandfather Scotch or Scotch-Irish?  I don't know, and it doesn't matter, 95% of those in the Appalachians were Scotch-Irish, not Scotch. 

Appalachians used iron because some of the biggest iron ore belts were right around Hickory, NC, which had been discovered prior to the Revolutionary war.  Also it was more common to have a blacksmith in the mountains, than a store where you could buy brass.  In the Mountain frontier the furniture was iron out of necessity. 

Now, when did the Catawba mild handguard points trigger guard, made of brass become the iron Henderson Co. spur on the end of the hand rail?  And when and where did it become a coiled ring? There are plenty of rings on NC mountain rifles, when not many people migrated Southeast from Tennessee back into NC. They went the other way.  Of course, it was all the same state until the 1790s, North Carolina.  And people do migrate in all directions from all areas.   

The interesting thing is some early NC rifles from West of the Piedmont had Pennsylvania features, where many learned the trade.  In Catawba county Germans like Huffman made rifles that sometimes had brass, sometimes iron.  These are early rifles.  They spoke German.  About a generation later, lots of Scotch-Irish were filling up further to the West, in what we now call Western NC.  The population of Scotch-Irish grew very quickly and people kept heading further West, into Rutherford Co., and over towards Cherokee land. They all became Iron Mounted, except for a few parts being brass by a few makers, like some Gillespies. 

Again, the ring trigger guard evolved and I'm not sure if it did so in far West NC, or up in TN.  But I doubt gunsmiths were copying Scottish pistols, since the Scotch-Irish were not highland Scotch anyway.  The highlanders came later than the Scotch-Irish, who were 2nd or 3rd generation "plantation" transplants from lowland Scotland, into English/Irish Ulster. 


« Last Edit: July 18, 2022, 04:39:03 PM by AZshot »

Offline wmrike

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 248
Re: Purpose of rear ring on handrail of Appalachian rifles
« Reply #27 on: July 15, 2022, 04:31:48 PM »
One should never, ever, discount the influence of style.

Offline Arcturus

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 477
Re: Purpose of rear ring on handrail of Appalachian rifles
« Reply #28 on: July 22, 2022, 06:15:03 PM »
I'm in the camp of those who believe it is a matter of style.  But I also strongly believe that the original practical reason is just to round off the end of the rail and prevent poking and snagging on things.  The similarity to the Scottish pistols may or may not have had an influence, but we also see this curling back and rounding the rail in the English sporting guns all the way to the Plains rifles.  Despite the fact that the curling of the southern mountain rifle rails often creates a closed ring, I still believe the practical purpose is just to round it off.   
« Last Edit: July 22, 2022, 06:40:17 PM by Arcturus »
Jerry

Offline AZshot

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 700
Re: Purpose of rear ring on handrail of Appalachian rifles
« Reply #29 on: July 27, 2022, 03:39:48 PM »
I'll accept it was a style thing.  Why rifles went from a smooth tail of the hand guard to a stop (spur or ring on spur) was also a combination of function and style.  Mostly style. Many of my rifles with a spur or ring stop don't seem to position my hand for the trigger right.  Either you try to cram 3 fingers on the rail, which is too tight, or you just put 2 in there, and have your pinky behind the spur - which puts your trigger finger too far to the rear to trip the set trigger well.  I suppose style was most important.

Offline Ghillie

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 78
Re: Purpose of rear ring on handrail of Appalachian rifles
« Reply #30 on: July 27, 2022, 07:10:46 PM »
As to the origin of Scots in the Appalachian Mountain region, my Scottish ancestors were invited to leave Scotland in the 1760's and were removed to Mass. and then moved South to central and western Virginia.  Not all Scots removed from the homeland were sent for a stopover in Ireland.

Offline AZshot

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 700
Re: Purpose of rear ring on handrail of Appalachian rifles
« Reply #31 on: July 28, 2022, 06:18:14 PM »
Totally agree.  But the vast majority of immigrants from the 1750s-1776 were Scotch-Irish.  By 1790 there were almost 4 Million Scotch Irish in America.  200,000 to 400,000 had emigrated before the Revolution.  Whereas about 48,000 Scotch had.  This map shows migration paths of the 2 groups, and is relevant to the Appalachian school long rifles.


https://mcmillen-design.com/scotsirish/pages/scotsirish.html
« Last Edit: July 28, 2022, 06:29:03 PM by AZshot »

Offline mr. no gold

  • member 2
  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 2654
Re: Purpose of rear ring on handrail of Appalachian rifles
« Reply #32 on: July 28, 2022, 06:39:48 PM »
My mother's family, the Means line, were low land Scots who were trouble makers and were relocated to Ireland in the early 1700s, About 1740 three brothers came to America and went on from there. My ancestor went south and eventually up into southern Illinois by about 1830.
Dick. 

Offline Ezra

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1579
Re: Purpose of rear ring on handrail of Appalachian rifles
« Reply #33 on: July 28, 2022, 08:32:32 PM »
People are people no matter when or where.  Pretty much everyone wants at least some unique, cool or beautiful (prideful) items.  Well, unless you’re Amish.  Of course, no offense meant to our Amish friends.  ;D
That said, I think this trigger-guard absolutely falls into the camp of showing the skill of the blacksmith, just like an over the comb tang would be.

Ez
"Rules are for the obedience of fools and guidance of wise men"

Offline AZshot

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 700
Re: Purpose of rear ring on handrail of Appalachian rifles
« Reply #34 on: July 29, 2022, 02:42:47 AM »
We Scotch-Irish are a cantankerous bunch. 

I read (but wasn't sure I believed) that the long tang was to compensate for the very thin wrists they were making.  Like re-bar.  But I think they just look great.

Offline Roger B

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1644
  • You wouldn't have a snack, would you?
Re: Purpose of rear ring on handrail of Appalachian rifles
« Reply #35 on: July 29, 2022, 06:25:03 AM »
Back in the 70s I remember hearing about "chaw straps" which were not allowed at most shoots. The "chaw strap" was a leather thong which attached to the wrist or trigger guard of the rifle; the other end of which was clamped tightly in the shooter's  jaw. I think the idea was to keep a tight cheek weld on the gun & perhaps improve consistency in placement.  Anyhow,  I always wondered if a ring in the rear of the guard was a convenient place to tie your "chaw strap".  My relatives never used one due to a relative lack of teeth & usually having a "chaw" of tobacco in their cheek.
Roger B.
Roger B.
Roger B.
Never underestimate the sheer destructive power of a minimally skilled, but highly motivated man with tools.

Offline heinz

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1158
Re: Purpose of rear ring on handrail of Appalachian rifles
« Reply #36 on: July 31, 2022, 04:37:59 PM »
I never saw anyone back in the late 60's and 70s actually put a "Chaw Strap"  in their mouth.  It was quite common however to see vent hole picks or primer wires attached to the "chaw strap" during on line shooting, or even large beads.  I have no idea if it was historically correct and suspect it was not, but it was "buckskinning" before we knew better and we were just having fun.





kind regards, heinz

Offline AZshot

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 700
Re: Purpose of rear ring on handrail of Appalachian rifles
« Reply #37 on: July 31, 2022, 06:42:15 PM »
Looks like it worked for you.