Author Topic: .Feedback please German? New Pic's added  (Read 1776 times)

Offline jdm

  • member 2
  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1446
.Feedback please German? New Pic's added
« on: July 19, 2022, 08:38:19 PM »
I acquired last weekend at the local show. It was interesting to me and thought it might be fun to study.  There are a lot of problems with it  the  trigger guard and missing forend .being the most obvious  There is no name or proof marks . I don't think the barrell is original to the stock but could be wrong.The brass brads seem old an added to my  interest.  This is way out of my wheelhouse so any opinions  are welcome . Don't worry about hurting my feelings I asked for it. Besides I can always hit delete and go cry.   LOL   Jim












« Last Edit: July 23, 2022, 02:23:12 AM by jdm »
JIM

Offline jdm

  • member 2
  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1446
Re: .Feedback please .Brooks where are you
« Reply #1 on: July 19, 2022, 08:44:46 PM »










JIM

Offline rich pierce

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 19524
Re: .Feedback please .Brooks where are you
« Reply #2 on: July 19, 2022, 09:16:48 PM »
Neat gun. Can we see the whole lockplate? Caliber? Smoothbore or straight rifling?
Andover, Vermont

Offline jdm

  • member 2
  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1446
Re: .Feedback please German, Austrian .Brooks where are you
« Reply #3 on: July 19, 2022, 09:25:21 PM »
Octagon to round smooth. I'll have to get back to you on the Caliber.  Thanks Rich.
I'll take the lock out and get a picture.


JIM

Offline Mike Brooks

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13415
    • Mike Brooks Gunmaker
Re: .Feedback please German, Austrian .Brooks where are you
« Reply #4 on: July 19, 2022, 11:21:31 PM »
I wish chis immel was still around, he'd know all about it.  Looks like the original barrel. It's either a fowling gun or  a straight rifled boar gun. It was made as a half stock.  I'd like to see the buttplate, lock and triggerguard to help make the ID.  I'll have to sit down with chambers book on jeagers to help figure it out. Can you get a good picture of the buttstock carving?
NEW WEBSITE! www.mikebrooksflintlocks.com
Say, any of you boys smithies? Or, if not smithies per se, were you otherwise trained in the metallurgic arts before straitened circumstances forced you into a life of aimless wanderin'?

Offline jdm

  • member 2
  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1446
Re: .Feedback please German, Austrian .Brooks where are you
« Reply #5 on: July 20, 2022, 01:12:24 AM »
Thanks Mike, There is no but plate. Wood has been replaced under the trigger guard . The guard looks replaced to me. As far as I can see down the barrel it is smooth. I took some quick pictures.














JIM

Offline Mike Brooks

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13415
    • Mike Brooks Gunmaker
Re: .Feedback please German, Austrian .Brooks where are you
« Reply #6 on: July 20, 2022, 01:19:41 AM »
No buttplate...nifty. I'll hit the books this evening.
NEW WEBSITE! www.mikebrooksflintlocks.com
Say, any of you boys smithies? Or, if not smithies per se, were you otherwise trained in the metallurgic arts before straitened circumstances forced you into a life of aimless wanderin'?

Offline jdm

  • member 2
  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1446
Re: .Feedback please German, Austrian .Brooks where are you
« Reply #7 on: July 20, 2022, 01:42:49 AM »







JIM

Offline Stophel

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4532
  • Chris Immel
Re: .Feedback please German, Austrian .Brooks where are you
« Reply #8 on: July 20, 2022, 01:50:44 AM »
I wish chis immel was still around, he'd know all about it. 

Who dares summon me from my slumber?

Oh, it's you.

:D

Well, I don't know all about it, but for what it's worth...

It's an odd one, which makes it harder to put a location on, but, I'm thinking more southern than northern.... but that's hard to say.  Maybe somewhere along the Main, but that's a total wild guess.  The carving looks more southern than northern Germany to me, but that's just a feeling.  The gun has a lot more drop at the heel than normal, which also points south... in a manner of speaking.     Apparently, the stock was originally not nearly so fish-bellied as it is now(?), at least from what I can see, so imagine the gun with a fairly straight line from the wrist to the toe, and the gun starts looking much more normal.  Date... that's about as difficult.  I would personally say last half of the 18th century.... pretty broad.  But I would think probably a little closer to the end of that time period rather than the beginning.  The lack of a buttplate makes me think later too.  You see rifles with heel plates (not full buttplates) starting about mid century or so.  This one just has a heel screw.  Oh, it appears the sideplate panel has been seriously leveled off.  The little teardrop sideplates may well have been added later.  They do look seriously out of place.

Just as an aside, when I saw this gun, I immediately thought "RCA 15".  Not that I think the same person made this, but notice some of the features.  The drop at the heel.  The way the nose of the comb is shaped (kinda fat and not hollowed out or cut in on either side).   The heel screw.   Just... interesting.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2022, 01:56:55 AM by Stophel »
When a reenactor says "They didn't write everything down"   what that really means is: "I'm too lazy to look for documentation."

Offline jdm

  • member 2
  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1446
Re: .Feedback please German, Austrian .Brooks where are you
« Reply #9 on: July 20, 2022, 04:20:49 AM »
Mike, Stophel Thank you for your comments. Like I said I'm batting zero when it comes to these.The input is very much appreciated . Stophel I was wondering about the lock bolt plates they are made of horn. The brass tacks (brads) outline them perfectly and look like they've  been there a long time.  Thanks  Jim


Oh ya it's 16 gauge
« Last Edit: July 20, 2022, 04:38:31 AM by jdm »
JIM

Offline Chris_B

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 306
Re: .Feedback please German, Austrian .Brooks where are you
« Reply #10 on: July 20, 2022, 04:46:18 AM »
Unfortunately I am no expert and have no idea where or by whom that gun was made….
But I agree that it probably originates from Southern Germany or maybe Austria.
I live in Northern Germany and do not think we had many (if any) makers of guns of that
kind in our parts.
Kind regards from Germany, Chris

Offline Mike Brooks

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13415
    • Mike Brooks Gunmaker
Re: .Feedback please German, Austrian .Brooks where are you
« Reply #11 on: July 20, 2022, 02:42:12 PM »
It would really be great if Stophel were stiring stuff up around here just like back in the good old days.
NEW WEBSITE! www.mikebrooksflintlocks.com
Say, any of you boys smithies? Or, if not smithies per se, were you otherwise trained in the metallurgic arts before straitened circumstances forced you into a life of aimless wanderin'?

Offline jdm

  • member 2
  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1446
Re: .Feedback please German?
« Reply #12 on: July 22, 2022, 10:43:14 PM »

Well, I don't know all about it, but for what it's worth...

It's an odd one, which makes it harder to put a location on, but, I'm thinking more southern than northern.... but that's hard to say.  Maybe somewhere along the Main, but that's a total wild guess.  The carving looks more southern than northern Germany to me, but that's just a feeling.  The gun has a lot more drop at the heel than normal, which also points south... in a manner of speaking.     Apparently, the stock was originally not nearly so fish-bellied as it is now(?), at least from what I can see, so imagine the gun with a fairly straight line from the wrist to the toe, and the gun starts looking much more normal.  Date... that's about as difficult.  I would personally say last half of the 18th century.... pretty broad.  But I would think probably a little closer to the end of that time period rather than the beginning.  The lack of a buttplate makes me think later too.  You see rifles with heel plates (not full buttplates) starting about mid century or so.  This one just has a heel screw.  Oh, it appears the sideplate panel has been seriously leveled off.  The little teardrop sideplates may well have been added later.  They do look seriously out of place. ( end quote )




Chris I,ve looked this over and other than the wood being replaced under the trigger guard I don't see any modification to the stock. I think the fish belly is original to the gun . I can't detect any changes to the shape of the wood around the lock plates either.  I do agree this is an odd one . The carving is very pleasing and  I do enjoy the tack work.  Every where  tacks are present there is a cross incorporated with the design.  Here are some better views of the stock molding and the lock bolt side . Thanks for taking the time to look and reply . Maybe I'm missing something .Jim














« Last Edit: July 24, 2022, 01:38:34 AM by jdm »
JIM