Author Topic: Scraping  (Read 10217 times)

Bob Rearley

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Scraping
« on: October 28, 2009, 06:17:04 PM »
I was introduced to scraping last Spring by Jim Chambers and Jim Klein.  Much more enjoyable than sanding.  Do you scrapers sand to get your finished surface after you're finished scraping?  I also think the curl stands out much more after being scraped.
Bob

Offline Roger Fisher

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Re: Scraping
« Reply #1 on: October 28, 2009, 06:47:24 PM »
I'm still stuck on the need for fine paper on a fairly long wood sanding block to get rid of any hills and 'walleys'/valleys from said scraping.. but that's just me I guess doing things the hard way. ::)

I like those double edge carpet installers blades with the fine edge rolled over on a fine stone.  Works slicker than goose $#@* on a door knob! ;D

Offline t.caster

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Re: Scraping
« Reply #2 on: October 28, 2009, 06:47:42 PM »
No, that would defeat the purpose of scraping! Scraping "shovels" away most of the sawdust that gets into the wood pores when sanding, leaving the grain and curl more vivid.
If your scraping leaves chatter bumps, your going in the wrong direction to the grain, or you can vary the angle of attack of the scraper. I seldom hold the scraper perpendicular to the direction of travel. Some areas of the woods will defy all attempts to scrape!
Chatters can be sanded out and re-scraped....lightly and from a less offensive angle.
Tom C.

Offline Acer Saccharum

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Re: Scraping
« Reply #3 on: October 28, 2009, 06:49:57 PM »
"Scrape, scrape, scrape." (Kiilick, Master and Commander)

I have been thinking about aging guns. Since I have always made new guns, and I don't know how to age a gun convincingly, I am making up the processes as I go along.

Wear and tear:
A brand new gun would show all its scrape marks.
When a gun has been used for fifty years, there is little evidence of scraping.

Depending on your intent, you must age the gun accordingly. A heavily aged gun is worn in both the wood and the metal. I would sand the gun, not to produce a high finish, but to reproduce wear and tear. Areas of heavy contact get the most wear. Areas of little contact get little abrasion, but build up gunk. I think that this is a studied art form, and has to be done very well to be convincing.

This is as nice as it gets, a worn, but well cared for gun: http://contemporarymakers.blogspot.com/2009/10/hudson-valley-fowler-ca-1730-by-ken.html

A brand new 18th Cent gun needs no sanding. A mid-late 19th Cent gun certainly could be sanded.
Tom Curran's web site : http://monstermachineshop.net
Ramrod scrapers are all sold out.

Offline t.caster

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Re: Scraping
« Reply #4 on: October 28, 2009, 07:21:17 PM »
Acer, you got off topic somehow. How's the coffee? ::)
The aging you are talking about needs to be done AFTER the gun is stained and finished.
Methinks Bob was talking about before stain & finish ???
Tom C.

Offline Acer Saccharum

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Re: Scraping
« Reply #5 on: October 28, 2009, 07:38:46 PM »
I suppose it could be off topic. You better write to a moderator. ;D

I am thinking out loud, again, but don't you have to consider how the final product is going to look before you start finishing?

Oh, nevermind. Slap me with the fine.

Tom
Tom Curran's web site : http://monstermachineshop.net
Ramrod scrapers are all sold out.

Offline Stophel

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Re: Scraping
« Reply #6 on: October 28, 2009, 07:49:19 PM »
My little New England rifle is heavily worn, but you can still see scraper marks under the cheekpiece.

My oldest (and in best shape) German gun has beautiful scraper marks all over it.  It's not rough, mind you, but it shows "facets" where the scraper ran across it.

A glass microscope slide is MAGNIFICENT for fine final scraping.  You can scrape it quite smooth with a slide.
When a reenactor says "They didn't write everything down"   what that really means is: "I'm too lazy to look for documentation."

Offline Clowdis

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Re: Scraping
« Reply #7 on: October 28, 2009, 08:28:01 PM »
My little New England rifle is heavily worn, but you can still see scraper marks under the cheekpiece.

My oldest (and in best shape) German gun has beautiful scraper marks all over it.  It's not rough, mind you, but it shows "facets" where the scraper ran across it.

A glass microscope slide is MAGNIFICENT for fine final scraping.  You can scrape it quite smooth with a slide.

Reminds me of watching my grandfather finish an axe handle. He would take an old jar (when grandma wasn't looking) and break it to use the pieces for scraping the handle smooth. There was no roughness left to raise blisters when he finished. Worked like a champ!

Offline tallbear

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Re: Scraping
« Reply #8 on: October 28, 2009, 10:47:10 PM »
I always scrape as a final finish.I may sand at times but then finish up with a fine scraper.I stain with aqua-fortis and get much better contrast with a scraped surface than sanded.

Mitch

keweenaw

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Re: Scraping
« Reply #9 on: October 28, 2009, 11:35:43 PM »
What's this sandpaper/sanding stuff you guys are talking about?

Tom

Offline Dr. Tim-Boone

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Re: Scraping
« Reply #10 on: October 30, 2009, 03:20:15 PM »
Some newfangled invention the rich guys in the big cities are using.............??? 
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Offline rick landes

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Re: Scraping
« Reply #11 on: October 30, 2009, 03:46:53 PM »
I use a smoothed antler tine to burnish the wood. Gives it a nice "handled" feel.
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Offline gusd

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Re: Scraping
« Reply #12 on: October 30, 2009, 05:14:55 PM »
Last rifle I scraped every part (moldings , carving ,  all)
Then burnished using a steel burnisher & an antler tip.
Hope to get better at it with practice!
Gus

keweenaw

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Re: Scraping
« Reply #13 on: October 30, 2009, 07:56:26 PM »
For burnishing I use a 6" length of 1/2" hickory ramrod that I've contoured one end of in a bullet shape that comes to a sharp point.  The point is useful in getting into corners, etc.  It's now very smooth and plenty hard enough for the job.

Tom

Offline longcruise

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Re: Scraping
« Reply #14 on: October 30, 2009, 10:45:30 PM »


Wear and tear:
A brand new gun would show all its scrape marks.
When a gun has been used for fifty years, there is little evidence of scraping.

 

Ok, I'm thinking out lout too.  What if you handled the rifle as though using it with abrasives on your hands.  Sandpaper in the hands, or maybe a pair of leather gloves impregnated with abrasives?
Mike Lee

Offline Dphariss

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Re: Scraping
« Reply #15 on: October 30, 2009, 11:40:14 PM »
If you don't know how to age a gun leave it alone.
Most "aged" guns don't look old they just look aged.

I think the "aged" idea is simply something to sell to people who like the look. I used to think it was pretty neat but I outgrew it. I have a rifle I have likely carried 100 miles or so on foot hunting and it does not look aged.  I did scratch it up a little more last time out but I doubt many hunters in the 18th-early 19th century scratched their rifle on a S&W hammer spur.
The barrel is plum browned fairly thinly and this is wearing pretty thin. But it took the shine off for hunting season a couple of years back.

Part of the problem is we have little idea what the gun looked like when it was 20 or 50 years old.
Could have looked like RCA #81 just as easy as not, might have been nearly wrecked is 5 or 10 before the wood even got worn.



This rifle probably has 15-20 years use on it based on its suspected build date. It managed to survive unbroken but it has some wear from horseback use, likely from being slug from the horn and from use in general.  Its impossible to really look at since its under glass.  But you need to carry a rifle like this to appreciate what is being seen. Eastern guns would show a different pattern.
A lot of the serious wear seen on guns is from be transported in a wagon. Worn through into the rod channel etc.
But most folks never use a horse drawn wagon anymore, certainly don't haul a gun ready for use everyday and don't realize this.
End of  break time.
Dan
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Madcaster

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Re: Scraping
« Reply #16 on: October 31, 2009, 06:33:44 AM »
 Scraping is a preferred method for me.

Canyonrun

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Re: Scraping
« Reply #17 on: November 01, 2009, 05:22:02 PM »
This maybe off subject a little bit but what are some method in sharpening a scraper, I bought a set bundle with different curbs and straights, packages cover indicated scraper edge need to be prepare to scrape.  :-\

brokenflint

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Re: Scraping
« Reply #18 on: November 01, 2009, 06:14:59 PM »
Canyonrun  here's one on this forum, couple of others if you do a search.  Check the old forums as well as woodworker's sites.

http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=5228.0

Broke

Offline Tom Currie

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Re: Scraping
« Reply #19 on: November 01, 2009, 07:33:28 PM »
My son bought me some scrapers last Christmas and I didnt really know how much I would use them but turned out they are enjoyable to use and I won't look back. My favorite is a french curve style and for concave areas like the cheekpiece it is great . Convex areas ( most of the rifle surfaces )  :( are a bit tougher as you can't scrape as large an area with a single pass.

Offline Dphariss

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Re: Scraping
« Reply #20 on: November 02, 2009, 02:21:13 AM »
This maybe off subject a little bit but what are some method in sharpening a scraper, I bought a set bundle with different curbs and straights, packages cover indicated scraper edge need to be prepare to scrape.  :-\

Depends on the intended use and how hard/thick the scraper is.
On some I file or stone smooth then use a hard steel burnisher to roll a burr. If you don't smooth the edge enough you will have a saw edge that will leave a rough cut. This will only cut when angled so the sharp burr edge cuts.
I stone the sides (usually) and edges if needed on these since I use them is several different ways including scraping steel so they are too hard to roll an edge on with a burnisher anyway.

It was making such neat curls here I took a photo.
The scraper in a scratch stock is sharpened only on the sides.

Dan
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Canyonrun

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Re: Scraping
« Reply #21 on: November 02, 2009, 07:44:01 AM »
Thanks, going too give it a try.  ;D

Offline patchbox

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Re: Scraping
« Reply #22 on: November 04, 2009, 10:06:51 PM »

  I'm confused about when to scrape when using LMF stain and Permalyn sealer for a finish. Would you first sand using progressively finer grit sand paper to remove all file marks etc. then dampen to raise the grain,then lightly scrape the entire stock before applying the stain? Also, is the burnishing done before or after the Permalyn sealer is applied?? I need to get the steps straight.....Thanks.................................Chuck P.

Offline Acer Saccharum

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Re: Scraping
« Reply #23 on: November 04, 2009, 10:19:58 PM »
I shape my stock starting with a bandsaw and hatchet, move through gouges to rasps, then scrapers.

no sandpaper ever required.

You may find that staining will raise the grain some, but you can follow with a delicate scraping. Seal the stock with shellac, let dry, then with an alcohol dampened coarse cloth, wipe ACROSS the grain. Let dry. Then scrub the stock with kraft paper to shine and burnish, then start your oil finishing procedure.
Tom Curran's web site : http://monstermachineshop.net
Ramrod scrapers are all sold out.