Author Topic: Another Swivel Breech (Read 22018 times)

Randall Steffy · « **on:** August 12, 2008, 02:53:18 AM »

I have enjoyed immensely seeing ALR member’s muzzleloading projects and have been schooled so well along the way. So even though I tend toward shyness, and have been taught since a child “don’t toot your own horn”, I am hesitantly posting my latest build, for what it is worth. I give credit to Dave Waters for the impetus and help his book, “Building a Swivel Breech” has given me. Also, seeing Dave Price’s beauties, and talking with him about challenges specific to wenders picked me up along the way.
I started with Green Mtn. 7/8” straight , .50 cal, 38” barrels and milled them to a trim swamped profile that suited me. The lock parts are taken from an L&R Jn. Bailes. The trigger guard is from a pattern and castings of my own doing, as well as the thimbles, patch box and nose cap. Reaves supplied the butt plate. I would call it a contemporary design, leaning heaviest toward the Lancaster school, as I am a resident of Lanc., PA. The tapered ramrod will be shortened flush with the muzzle, as it extends all the way to the front swivel plate. Overall length is 54.6”, LOP 14.125”, weight 8.7 lbs., ¼” cast off, 1.6” wide butt with a 3” drop. You can see more pictures here https://ibb.co/album/iEvwAa
I welcome suggestions or questions, and hope you enjoyed the diversion from the stresses of your day.
Randall Steffy

D. Taylor Sapergia · « **Reply #1 on:** August 12, 2008, 03:29:25 AM »

It's a very neat and tidy rifle Randall...well laid out and most pleasing to the eye. For its length, it is amazingly light. I look forward to seeing it as it progresses towards the finish line. Thanks so much for showing us...you can be justifiably proud and satisfied.

sydney · « **Reply #2 on:** August 12, 2008, 03:35:10 AM »

Hi--Very nice work---Please post more pictures as you finish the rifle
I am interested how you made the sliding trigger guard ??
Thanks Sydney

ehoff · « **Reply #3 on:** August 12, 2008, 06:00:13 PM »

Beautiful job!, I too would love to see a photo of the sliding trigger guard and the locking mechanism.

lew wetzel · « **Reply #4 on:** August 12, 2008, 08:20:40 PM »

i just googled "swivel breetchs"and it came up with dave waters site.his book is only $25.00.since there has been a regular showing of guys making s.bbreetchs.i am feeling the lure of this rifle and just might have to try one...

Randall Steffy · « **Reply #5 on:** August 13, 2008, 01:41:38 AM »

I would personally not describe the trigger guard as "sliding", although there is a sliding motion as you release the swivel action and the moving section of the guard slides past the stationary section. I expect the following two pictures will answer some of your questions on this matter. The heart shaped spring is attached at its highest point to the rear swivel block and flexes somewhat through out its height to the point where the release portion of the guard is thread attached. I calculated that the radius for the point where the guard halves pass each other originates near the attaching screw at the top of heart spring.
R. Steffy

Tenn Hills Guy · « **Reply #6 on:** August 13, 2008, 03:39:56 PM »

As I am in the middle of building the Waters' SB, I can surely appreciate your craftsmanship! I don't think of putting up the pics constitutes 'tooting your own horn'. Perhaps I have the wrong idea about what this forum is about, but I thought the idea was to allow the average guy to show what he's doing. If you do this for a living, then maybe it is 'tooting'. Now a question: How did you get the dovetails so precise? I cut mine with a jeweler's saw and can't quite get that degree of precision. Beautiful work though, even the inside is purty!

ehoff · « **Reply #7 on:** August 13, 2008, 04:46:47 PM »

Thanks for the photos they really help to wrap your mind around how the mechansim works, again beautiful work.

D. Taylor Sapergia · « **Reply #8 on:** August 13, 2008, 06:41:13 PM »

Randall, can you tell me about the "U" shaped wire that goes through the ends of the detent rods? I assume it is so that the pins are withdrawn evenly, but what makes them snap back into the plate's holes?
And I agree with the others...the design and execution are excellent.

Randall Steffy · « **Reply #9 on:** August 14, 2008, 01:05:08 AM »

The pair of locking pins are .187" diameter where they pass through the swivel plates, as I recall. The portion that you see extending through and beyond the heart spring is reduced in diameter to .125" creating a shoulder. The heart spring exerts its tension against that shoulder pressing the pins into the front or barrel swivel plate. Engagement is less than you may guess. The U shaped spring wire is what the heart spring/trigger guard engages to withdraw the pins. U shaped was just an easy way to make it easily removable and self retaining.

I shudder to think of creating this action with hand tools alone (files, hacksaw, etc.) and am fortunate to have a vertical mill to use. The female dovetails were cut with a small endmill, angling a small vise holding the swivel plate the correct degree. The males were cut with a dovetail milling cutter.

Thanks for your kind words of encouragement.

R. Steffy

D. Taylor Sapergia · « **Reply #10 on:** August 14, 2008, 01:15:07 AM »

Thanks Randall...now I understand. And file and saw is how I shall make mine, though I have a good lathe. John Getz has made me a pair of .54 cal x 40"barrels - I shall make a rifle based on the Wm. Antes in RCA Vol. 1, but with English walnut rather than Black walnut.

lew wetzel · « **Reply #11 on:** August 14, 2008, 03:45:09 AM »

this might be a stupid question,but,how is the pins actuated???is it through the trigger guard.it looks like the t.guard is attached to the heart shaped plate,but it is also attached by a screw at the top.so how would it move backwards to pull the pins to release the barrels so you can swivel them???

Randall Steffy · « **Reply #12 on:** August 14, 2008, 04:00:42 AM »

Lew,
The heart spring is just that, a spring that is flexed or bent rearward when the trigger guard, an extended lever of the heart spring, is pulled backward to release and swivel the barrels. A firm pressure with your index finger will do it. If I am still not turning the light on, just say so. I know there seems to be quite a shortage of information/photos of the originals and their guts.

lew wetzel · « **Reply #13 on:** August 14, 2008, 04:07:00 AM »

so the u-shaped spring attached to the pins keeps back pressure on the pins and keeps them engaged or locked into the front swivel plates.and when the trigger guard is pulled backward it releases the pins.

Randall Steffy · « **Reply #14 on:** August 14, 2008, 04:28:24 AM »

Lew,
The U shaped music wire spring's primary operational purpose is to withdraw the pins from the front swivel plate when acted upon by the heart shaped spring. The shoulder on the locking pins, which cannot be seen, is where the heart spring exerts its tension to lock the swivel plates, a forward pressure. We may be saying the same thing...

lew wetzel · « **Reply #15 on:** August 14, 2008, 04:37:00 AM »

i am still alittle miffed at the total funtioning of this action.would you happen to have some other pics of it all broken down.i am very intriqued as to how this works and having use of a mill and lathe i am considering getting dave waters book and building this rifle.i have read where martin wetzel and simon kenton went on a hunt together and martin having a swivel rifle with him.and they werent hunting no 4 legged animals either..

Randall Steffy · « **Reply #16 on:** August 14, 2008, 04:48:46 AM »

Lew,
The rifle is presently assembled. However, I won't let you hanging. I will try to get some more pics of the locking pins and forward swivel plate, which may help. Also, as you say, "all broken down".

Tim Crosby · « **Reply #17 on:** August 14, 2008, 02:52:42 PM »

Hey Lew, I've got the book, if you are going to be at Lodi next week I will bring it up.

Tim C.

lew wetzel · « **Reply #18 on:** August 14, 2008, 04:12:57 PM »

hey tim,ya i will be there..would love to take a look at the book.

rsteffy....ya i would really like to see some more of the parts as to how they function...

Randall Steffy · « **Reply #19 on:** August 15, 2008, 04:08:46 AM »

Here are a few pics of the swivel breech which are likely self explanitory. I hope I have encouraged some of you to broaden your building horizons or proceed with that dream. Did I get the juices flowing or turn you off?

Dphariss · « **Reply #20 on:** August 15, 2008, 05:03:49 AM »

Nice. Very neatly done.

Dan

lew wetzel · « **Reply #21 on:** August 15, 2008, 05:30:15 AM »

very cool indeed.did you make all the parts yourself.and can you get a lock action already made up or is this something else you have to do on your own???

Karl Kunkel · « **Reply #22 on:** August 15, 2008, 05:46:10 AM »

I love this site. You guys amaze me with your craftsmanship and abilities. Thank you for sharing your projects. Even though projects of this magnitude are beyond the capabilities of us humble lurkers, I nevertheless enjoy looking over your talented sholders.

D. Taylor Sapergia · « **Reply #23 on:** August 15, 2008, 05:53:53 AM »

Yes, yes yes! I'm turned on...great photographs and workmanship.

Tenn Hills Guy · « **Reply #24 on:** August 15, 2008, 06:06:42 AM »

How did you do the breechplugs? Water's plan suggests starting with 1" round stock, threaded and flat filed, with the 'hook' threaded into that. Looks like you went straight into the barrel.

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Author Topic: Another Swivel Breech (Read 22018 times)

lew wetzel

Tenn Hills Guy

lew wetzel

lew wetzel

lew wetzel

lew wetzel

lew wetzel

Tenn Hills Guy