Author Topic: Solder or epoxy hooked breech before inletting?  (Read 2206 times)

Offline Mike G

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Solder or epoxy hooked breech before inletting?
« on: July 31, 2022, 11:06:28 PM »
I have never before inletted a hooked breech.  The parts for the schuetzen rifle I am building come from Rod England and  include a Griffith hooked breech.  The  breech plug was fitted to  the one inch barrel already and the tang has a snug fit to the hook with no gaps.  I am right now draw filing and polishing the barrel flats to remove any remaining machine marks on the barrel and am about ready to remove the evidence of casting from the tang.

My question is, what is a better way to keep the tang attached prior to finishing the breech snail and inletting the barrel and tang, soldering or epoxy?  I imagine that soldering would be stronger  than epoxy but the later clean up would be more difficult.  What is the consensus here?  Is there a consensus?
« Last Edit: July 31, 2022, 11:33:21 PM by Mike G »

Online 45-110

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Re: Solder or epoxy hooked breech before inletting?
« Reply #1 on: July 31, 2022, 11:55:43 PM »
I have always used epoxy, holds well and easy cleanup. Use some heat to separate.
kw

Offline kutter

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Re: Solder or epoxy hooked breech before inletting?
« Reply #2 on: August 01, 2022, 01:30:49 AM »
If the tang fits snug to the hook as you say it does,
You can 'glue ' the two pieces together very quickly and very tightly with simple Super Glue.

Clean the surfaces. Put a few drops on the hook areas and slide the tang in place. Tap it into position to make sure it's seated.
The glue will set up VERY quickly in the tight spaces of well fitted parts.
Add a couple drops from the back side if you feel the need and let them draw into the assembly.
You will be able to use the assembly in a few minutes after putting it together.

The joint will be near impossible to dissassemble w/o using some heat later on.
But you won't have to get the parts anywhere near the temps needed to break most epoxys and solders.

This stuff is a poor mans LocTite.
Threaded fasteners, even wood screws that need to put tight in their orig hole,,,but they won't be coming back out!,,Not unless you place the tip of a soldering gun on the screw head first for a few moments to heat things up.
Then the screw turns right out.

When assembling using SG,,do it quickly. It will start to set-up as soon as the stuff is down into confined areas. Includes threaded fasteners.

Online smart dog

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Re: Solder or epoxy hooked breech before inletting?
« Reply #3 on: August 01, 2022, 01:48:30 AM »
Hi,
It does not really matter.  I solder them together because I don't have to wait for glue to dry and I only get solder on the outer edges of the tang face and barrel face.  Clean up is trivial.  I do a lot of standing hook and tang) breeches.
 

dave
"The main accomplishment of modern economics is to make astrology look good."

Offline wapiti22

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Re: Solder or epoxy hooked breech before inletting?
« Reply #4 on: August 01, 2022, 02:28:33 AM »
Epoxy. Goes on easy, comes apart easy, cleans up easy.

Solder - not so much!

Offline gusd

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Re: Solder or epoxy hooked breech before inletting?
« Reply #5 on: August 01, 2022, 03:45:11 AM »
Just finished a S. Hawken used epoxy. Worked very well & was easy to take
apart when done. ;)
Gus

Offline Scota4570

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Re: Solder or epoxy hooked breech before inletting?
« Reply #6 on: August 01, 2022, 09:56:45 PM »
I use medium viscosity CA glue.  A spritz of activator will set it instantly. 

Offline Martin S.

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Re: Solder or epoxy hooked breech before inletting?
« Reply #7 on: August 03, 2022, 01:05:31 AM »
OK, new builder question.  What is the purpose of attaching the hooked tang to the barrel to inlet?

Would it not be possible to inlet the tang separately?  Why the need to attach them for inletting?

Sorry for the questions, but I really don't understand why.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2022, 08:20:57 AM by Martin S. »

Offline Steeltrap

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Re: Solder or epoxy hooked breech before inletting?
« Reply #8 on: August 03, 2022, 01:43:30 PM »
OK, new builder question.  What is the purpose of attaching the hooked tang to the barrel to inlet?

Would it not be possible to inlet the tang separately?  Why the need to attach them for inletting?

Sorry for the questions, but I really don't understand why.

While I suppose it's possible to properly inlet the tang without the barrel attached, that could prove difficult. You want that long barrel sitting in the barrel channel so the tang is in alignment with that long barrel\barrel channel. One degree off and you will be carving a wider tang area....and learning the craft of "glue a slice of wood" in the tang area.

Offline Martin S.

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Re: Solder or epoxy hooked breech before inletting?
« Reply #9 on: August 07, 2022, 03:18:27 AM »
OK, that makes sense.  Thanks for the explanation.

Offline D. Taylor Sapergia

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Re: Solder or epoxy hooked breech before inletting?
« Reply #10 on: August 07, 2022, 11:52:49 PM »
I have very rarely seen a standing breech that was in line with the centre of a barrel, once fit to the hook.  The tang frequently needs bending, not only to conform to the breech/wrist area in profile, but often left or right of the centre line of the rifle.  If you don't inlet it as a unit, you will have a difficult to impossible time of getting the faces of the standing breech and the breech plug to align again.
I solder mine together so I can apply considerable bending force to get the tang down the centre of the stock...especially true in Hawken style hooked breeches and tangs.  Heat separates them when the job is done, and scrapers remove the solder easily.  Cold blue tells me where there is solder that still needs to be scraped away.
The fit of the breech plug to the standing breech in a hooked breech firearm is crucial to accuracy, so it has to be right.  the bedding of the standing breech in the wood too, it extremely important.  A perfect job is the only one acceptable, and fitting the tang and barrel as a unit, once the barrel is fit to the channel, is the only way I can do it correctly.
D. Taylor Sapergia
www.sapergia.blogspot.com

Art is not an object.  It is the excitement inspired by the object.

Online smart dog

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Re: Solder or epoxy hooked breech before inletting?
« Reply #11 on: August 08, 2022, 02:45:28 AM »
Hi,
Taylor is bang on.  There should be a lug on the bottom of the standing breech for a cross pin anchoring the bottom.  In the absence of that lug, you should install a screw that threads into the bottom of the breech and either anchors the forward extension of the trigger guard or is hidden under it.  That holds the standing breech down tightly in the barrel channel preventing it from being being levered up when the barrel is seated. 

dave
"The main accomplishment of modern economics is to make astrology look good."

Offline Not English

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Re: Solder or epoxy hooked breech before inletting?
« Reply #12 on: August 08, 2022, 05:39:07 AM »
Pay attention to what Taylor says. He is spot on. I've used epoxy before and it's not up to the task especially if you need to bend and move the tang as Taylor says. You'll have no problems with soft solder.

Online 45-110

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Re: Solder or epoxy hooked breech before inletting?
« Reply #13 on: August 10, 2022, 05:45:15 PM »
I have always used epoxy on Hawken and Dimick etc. tangs, its always worked. This week I tried JB weld 'cause it was laying on the bench. I had a bunch of tweaking, bending and adjustments to be made on this flint tang hook breech asm. The JB held perfectly and popped apart easily with some heat. One thing for sure is the fit of the tang and breech must be a perfect fit to start with. Easy cleanup.
kw