Sparrow Pistol- a challenge awaits

[Bob Gerard]

Thanks Dave !

[Bob Gerard]

I spent the day working on the butt cap. It's not fun but it's a challenge and learning opportunity. After almost eight hours I got it in about as well as I can. Sure wish there was a tutorial or something to help show how to do this kind of cap.
I approached it by first lining-up two end points. I started on the inside of the cap and inlet that part first. I slowly inlet the cap working back towards the rear 'strap'.  Once I got the cap in place more or less, I worked on digging around the sides, lowering the cap into position.
With a bit more work I can get some of those gaps closed I think. Some more wood has to come off the back hump above the cap, but I do like the sleekness of this pistol. Here are a few pics of today's work
.

[Hunterdude]

I have this Exact kit on the shelf waiting to be built, with the exception of I ordered all my parts cast in German silver. I really like the architecture of this pistol and will be watching your build with interest!

[Mike Brooks]

Hi,
Please let's stop confusing pistol decoration.  The caps using the screw hidden behind the trigger guard also have an end cap that covers over the main screw in the butt holding the main cap in place.  That is only on butt caps mounted with end caps.  These little grotesque butt caps were never fitted that way and use an exposed screw in the mouth as Bob has done.  Do you guys see any flat area for an end cap on that grotesque cap?  That should be enough to tell you that one was not used.

dave

This is correct information. ALL  caps of this style are attached with a screw through the mouth.

[Pukka Bundook]

Mike,

I must just say for the general good of the forum, that some few buttcaps have the screw through the forehead.

Yes, you are right, Most have the screw in the mouth, but not all.
Very best ,
Richard.

[kutter]

Hi,
Please let's stop confusing pistol decoration. 

.....The caps using the screw hidden behind the trigger guard also have an end cap that covers over the main screw in the butt holding the main cap in place. 
.....That is only on butt caps mounted with end caps.

This is correct information. ALL  caps of this style are attached with a screw through the mouth.

SO using the screw hidden underneath the trigger guard tang ALSO requires a screw ('the main screw') in the butt to hold the main cap in place.
THEN in addition there is an END CAP that goes on OVER that Main Screw to hide it.

Where do you guys think up this stuff.?

I guess if you want to do it that way, it's fine. It certainly won't fall off I wouldn't think.
But just the hidden screw under the trigger guard tang into the sprue stud works just fine.
No wood screw thru Mr Grotesque's pie hole which I think looks better.
But according to you, NO ONE,,EVER did it that way,,,EVER in the history of the world.
But instead they used that hidden method AND in addition to that needed the Butt-Head screw as well.

OK...

[Bob Gerard]

OK, back to the topic of this build...
I went to the bench this morning just to put in a steel screw (removing the temp brass one) from the cap. After that was done I somehow decided to fuss around a bit with the lock and it's semi- fitting pre-inlet mortise. Well, another three hours flew on by and it's in. Unanticipated time well spent 

[Mike Brooks]

Hi,
Please let's stop confusing pistol decoration. 

.....The caps using the screw hidden behind the trigger guard also have an end cap that covers over the main screw in the butt holding the main cap in place. 
.....That is only on butt caps mounted with end caps.

This is correct information. ALL  caps of this style are attached with a screw through the mouth.

SO using the screw hidden underneath the trigger guard tang ALSO requires a screw ('the main screw') in the butt to hold the main cap in place.
THEN in addition there is an END CAP that goes on OVER that Main Screw to hide it.

Where do you guys think up this stuff.?

I guess if you want to do it that way, it's fine. It certainly won't fall off I wouldn't think.
But just the hidden screw under the trigger guard tang into the sprue stud works just fine.
No wood screw thru Mr Grotesque's pie hole which I think looks better.
But according to you, NO ONE,,EVER did it that way,,,EVER in the history of the world.
But instead they used that hidden method AND in addition to that needed the Butt-Head screw as well.

OK...

[iloco]

Hows the pistol coming along...

[Bob Gerard]

Iloco- I've gotten the lock bolt holes done and worked on the Lockplate. I modified it a little so it would fit the lower profile panel better. Hope it's not too bad looking.
Next will be to inlay it to be almost flush.
There are a couple of piercings in this plate that are wee-tiny. After thinking about how to approach them, I may carve walnut plugs to fit tightly inside the holes and then glue them into the mortise when the plate is fully inlet. With matching Walnut I think it will look better than by my trying to carve tiny islands that would probably not be very snug in those small piercings.

[Bob Gerard]

Today I inlet the sideplate. As I expected, I needed to remove all the wood inside the outside edges of the plate shape first. Next, I carved small pieces of Walnut and glued them into the mortise to fill the small plate piercings.
I have a bit of filling to do still, but that will be later.

[Pukka Bundook]

That sideplate is awful close to the one on my old Bailes pistol  Bob.

I just wish they had a bit 'Righter" lock in that kit.
No reflection on your work Bob!

[Bob Gerard]

Hi Pukka, it seems that gettin all appropriate parts for any given 'kit' is uncommon, and most good builders are able to modify parts (or just make them) to be more accurate to the piece. I just have to use what I can get and go with it...
Ryan at MBS suggested a Perry side plate for this kit, but it looked too difficult for my skill level, so I went with this one. I had to do some small modifications for it to fit.
I wonder if this plate was a commonly used one? I saw this pistol on the net and it looks like the same side plate (and butt cap) as the one I am working on.

[Pukka Bundook]

Yes Bob, a common sideplate on the better quality pieces.
You will often see a sideplate more or less identical, but with a longer area at the front. This was often just chequered. and left longer so the sidenail hole could be drilled in the appropriate place.
Most makers bought in their brass furniture by the bucket, and finished it out themselves.
Hereis my similar sideplate, but of course not exact, being the pistol is a turn -off.
Note the chequered area, so it can be made to fit with different locks.

[DHouse]

Interesting thread and neat kit, thanks for sharing Bob. Looking forward to more!

[smart dog]

Hi Bob,
Inletting those plates is not too hard.  I use very small chisels to stab in the design.  On really complicated ones I draw pencil lines on the wood to be removed because on one I got confused and removed the wrong wood.  I also had to glue a piece in place as you did.
 






Here is an original mortise:




Here is a plate very similar:




These are for Kutter.  The installation method is taken directly from looking at originals and is described nicely and with photos in Norman Dixon's "Georgian Pistols". 














Not made up.

dave

[Bob Gerard]

Dave, That’s exquisite work, as always. It wasn’t particularly hard work for me, mostly just very tedious. My eyes certainly need better magnification and lighting I am realizing more and more.
I decided to use pencil lines around the plate because of the tiny curves. I just used Exacto knives to remove the wood inside the lines. I hope that with some moisture applied later at the end of this build that the small gaps will swell closed. It was about two and a half hours of whittling away at the inlet; maybe with the next one I will take more time and be more precise in my cuts.

[smart dog]

Hi Bob,
Stain and finish will swell it never fear. This is a stabbing and scribing knife I made from a chip carving tool.  It is really useful getting into tight corners.  It scribes as well as stabs.



dave

[smart dog]

Hi Bob,
Let me suggest a couple more things for you to consider.  The Siler lock would benefit a lot from some cosmetic changes such as rounding the pan and giving the pan bridle a nice Nike "swoosh" and change the shape of the flint cock.  Here is an example.



The other thing to consider is that the side plate panel is best shaped to accommodate the side plate rather than be a mirror of the lock panel.  So make sure it starts and ends at the same place so when you look down both panels look even but beyond that, shape the side plate panel to frame the side plate and not mirror the lock.

dave

[Pukka Bundook]

All great advice from Dave, above!

[kutter]

Hi Bob,
....
These are for Kutter.  The installation method is taken directly from looking at originals and is described nicely and with photos in Norman Dixon's "Georgian Pistols". 

....
Not made up.

dave

Thank You Uncle Dave,,

So the pistol is a modern replica, the method is some dead guys idea.
Great. But it still would work just fine using the one hidden screw, wouldn't it?
Why can't it be done w/o the world of M/Ldr pistols catching on fire?

What's the need to have the replaceable face pics on the butt of the gun?..
Changing girl friends/wives/ boyfriends ??
Easier back then than scrubbing tatoos off now.
Maybe stash an xtra .22lr HP round in a shallow hole under there. Just for when it all comes down..

Neat work for sure.
If I do one with only the one screw used can that be a claim of a 'method  taken directly from looking at (my) original work' a couple centurys from now? Or maybe after the First of the Year?

Like the side plate inletting work.

[Bob Gerard]

Hi Dave, thanks again for your suggestions. I was considering doing something to the lock like you mentioned, but a bit hesitant to mess with it (I am not a metal worker by any means), but I suppose I should try. What tools do you use to shape the pan and the pan bridal? I am guessing a Dremel tool with a small grinder and some needle files...?
Regarding the lock and side panels- I am not sure I understand your suggestion here.  I had thought the two sides panels should mirror each other.. that is, the lock panel and the side plate panel are symmetrical?
Bob

[Bob Gerard]

The "Sparrow" pistol is starting to take shape. I inlet the trigger assembly this morning. For a guide, I used a Kibler rifle to give me a good distance from the trigger pivot pin to the sear bar, which is 1/2". The trigger pull is nice and light.
Then this afternoon I worked on the barrel, starting with the breech plug. The tang was long so I cut off about 3/4" and needed to just slightly cold-bend it, as the wrist on this gun is quite straight. It sits nicely and the touch hole/pan lines-up to where I want it.
Tomorrow I will install the tang screw, lug and pins, rough shape the stock and maybe begin installing the cast brass ramrod pipes. I might trim the stock some and move the entry-pipe back a bit further, not sure yet.

[smart dog]

Hi Bob,
The panels don't have to match.  They just need to be the same length but beyond that the can differ.  Here are examples. Note how the side plate panels are shaped to fit the side plates regardless of the shape of the lock.
 















dave

[Bob Gerard]

You're the best