Author Topic: What Do I have Here?  (Read 1503 times)

Offline pianotech70

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What Do I have Here?
« on: August 10, 2022, 04:41:30 AM »
I have a musket, been in my family for 199 years, and it is extremely similar to this one posted earlier   http://fontainesauction.hibid.com/lot/3485-13949-3773/r--ashmore-full-stock-flintlock-44-caliber-kentuck/. It has a very similar patch box, and an R Ashmore lock. 60 inches tall, 50 caliber and the lock was originally a flintlock that has been converted to percussion. The lock has 2 mounting bolts holes, but one is plugged. the stock appears to be New England and cherry. No markings on the barrel at all. Any ideas? Could it be the same origin as the link shows? Any input would be much appreciated



























« Last Edit: August 10, 2022, 02:35:11 PM by Tim Crosby »

Offline D. Taylor Sapergia

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Re: What Do I have Here?
« Reply #1 on: August 10, 2022, 07:37:18 PM »
What about this firearm makes you think it is a musket?  Or are you using the work "Musket" to mean muzzlelaoder?
D. Taylor Sapergia
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Offline Shreckmeister

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Re: What Do I have Here?
« Reply #2 on: August 10, 2022, 07:55:04 PM »
Similar in the most general sense of the word yes.  I do not think is by the same maker or from the same region. 
Not a musket.  Nice to have something like that in your family for so long.  Treasure it.
Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual.

Offline rich pierce

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Re: What Do I have Here?
« Reply #3 on: August 10, 2022, 07:57:27 PM »
I can’t tell that it is stocked in cherry. Unsigned plain late flint guns are hard to place. There’s nothing I see that is a hallmark signature of a particular area. I wouldn’t place too much importance on the lock maker. The next gun by the same maker may well have had a lock by a different maker.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2022, 08:02:13 PM by rich pierce »
Andover, Vermont

Offline jdm

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Re: What Do I have Here?
« Reply #4 on: August 10, 2022, 08:03:42 PM »
Great to have a family piece like that. I would think it was made in the 1850/1860 time period.  Thesel later rifles are a little harder to place exactly where they were made. I've seen the patch box before somewhere.    Jim
JIM

Offline pianotech70

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199 years in my family, But what is it?
« Reply #5 on: August 11, 2022, 12:21:11 AM »
My family immigrated from Ireland to the US, Lancaster, PA, in 1823. They bought my long rifle then as far as we know from passed down family stories and then moved to Ohio, near Hammondsville taking the gun with them. I was to believe it was a used gun when the purchased it. There is a delightful, virtually impossible, but true nonetheless story that goes with the gun, which I will tell later. We were told as kids that it was from the Revolutionary war period, but current discussions dispute that. Here is what I do know. 60 inches tall, 50 cal smoothbore, 7.2 pounds, full stock that appears to be not original to the lock anyway, New England style cherry stock that does fit the hardware and mountings of the barrel. R Ashmore lock, originally a flintlock with 2 mounting screws that does not fit the stock in that the front screw would interfere with the ramrod.  The front screw hole has been plugged, with no indication that the stock ever was inletted for the front screw. No markings of any kind that I can find on the barrel which retains a fair amount of the original finish. I was told at first that it was a replacement stock, but I guess it could just as easily be a replacement lock instead. The bore is clean and not much pitting. I and my father, gone since 1967, have shot this gun many times. It is accurate and as sweet shooting as you can imagine. I have not shot it since 1988 or so out of respect for its age, though in truth I would not be really afraid to do so. I will enclose pictures as well as a link I found a few days ago of an auction some years ago post on another thread that is very similar to this rifle and hoping that the link may help to identify. The link is:   http://fontainesauction.hibid.com/lot/3485-13949-3773/r--ashmore-full-stock-flintlock-44-caliber-kentuck/  Thanks, hope someone can enlighten me more on this family keepsake





« Last Edit: August 11, 2022, 12:48:36 AM by Tim Crosby »

Offline pianotech70

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Re: What Do I have Here?
« Reply #6 on: August 11, 2022, 12:25:57 AM »
Family history tells us it came with them from Lancaster area in 1823-1825. How true? dunno. And no way to find out for sure.

Offline pianotech70

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Re: What Do I have Here?
« Reply #7 on: August 11, 2022, 01:05:40 AM »
The curious backstory to this gun is that the family owned the gun for quite some time, since about 1823, or so I was told. During the Civil war, my family was a part of the militia in the Hammondsville area. The Confederates were headed for Pittsburgh and expected to try to escape down the Ohio River. The militia went to the mouth of the Yellow Creek and set up an earthwork of logs laid out into the water... guessing the Ohio, but it could have been the creek, as there is a large sandbar on the bank just down from the mouth of the creek.  They set logs out into the water in a triangular shape with the point out into water. They filled the center with large rocks and dirt. The militia could then crawl out on top and see both ways on the river and watch for the enemy. By the way, the Confederates took another way home. This is right up by where the Ohio makes a curve coming out of PA and WVA and an ideal watch post. My grandfather's grandfather was a youngster and had this rifle. He was on watch, gun loaded and wrapped in 2 layers of oilcloth, and the nipple plugged with bear grease. He was probably early to late teens. My Grandad was Harvey Cogsill Noble, and born in 1888, it was his grandfather with the gun. In any case, the young fellow dropped the gun and it slid into the earthworks and deep into the rocks and could not be retrieved. They left it. The story was passed on to my grandad, and to my father Charles VanDyke Noble, who was born in 1916. When my dad was 8 or 9 or so, my grandad and dad went to go find the earthworks out of curiosity. They found the stones, the logs long since gone. My dad crawled out on the rocks and rooted around and found the gun. BTW, if that part of the story had not been true, they would not have known to look for the gun at all in that location. Both of them told me story when I was a lad. The gun stayed in the basement at the homestead because my grandma HATED guns. The family moved to Alliance Ohio onto  Union street. The gun again stayed in the basement. My dad took me down into that spider hole to show me the gun, still wrapped in oilcloth. Dad went to the Pacific theater, was wounded at Okinawa a month after the main battle, and discharged. He moved to Youngstown. Grandma passed away in 1959, and grandad lost the house in '61. Dad brought grandpa home, and the gun and it hung on hooks on our mantle. The oil cloth kept it safe all those years. In 1965, dad noticed some rust forming on the gun, and decided it needed a better cleaning. We took it to the garage and disassembled it. The original ramrod was gone but dad had a friend who had one that almost fit but it was as bowed as a rocking chair runner and slightly oversize. We straightened it, sanded it, dropped it into the barrel... and the gun was still loaded. almost 100 years. We went to Girard Hardware for a nipple wrench, nothing fit, and the guy there showed us a visegrip, and that worked. The gunpowder was cleared out by car battery tester bulb.. looks like a turkey baster. The ball was so stuck that it would not move at all. Back to the hardware, and a pint of Liquid Wrench and we filled the barrel and waited. A few days later, the fluid started dripping out the flash hole. a screw welded onto a rod and the ball came very reluctantly out the barrel. A gunsmith checked and certified the gun safe to shoot, and we did, From the pitting and burning of the stock and the barrel, this gun has been fired many, many times before we did. Fantastic story, yes, but told to me by both my grandad and my dad separately. Dad died in '67 as a result of his WW2 wounds. No way to prove or disprove the family stories, I am the last one who would have heard them. Yes, it will be written down and kept with the gun. I have owned the gun since 1967, I was born in '51.
« Last Edit: August 11, 2022, 02:08:01 AM by pianotech70 »

Offline Ezra

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Re: What Do I have Here?
« Reply #8 on: August 11, 2022, 04:36:22 AM »
I love it, keeping the history alive. 8)

Ez
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Offline Bob Roller

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Re: What Do I have Here?
« Reply #9 on: August 11, 2022, 03:11:17 PM »
What about this firearm makes you think it is a musket?  Or are you using the work "Musket" to mean muzzlelaoder?
Many times I have heard "Musket" used as a term for any muzzle loader.NOW! Some time ago there was a really fine small bore double rifle shown here and so far NO follow up of any kind and will there ever be??
  Getting back to the rifle,that lock was a flint lock and that's obvious and it;s been a long time on that rifle.A wonderful relic and long time in one family and that's a good place for it.
Bob Roller