Author Topic: Aqua Fortis Reagent  (Read 1739 times)

Offline canadianml1

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Aqua Fortis Reagent
« on: August 12, 2022, 12:57:44 AM »
Can someone please tell me how to make this reagent from iron nitrate crystals (or other approach)? I am in Canada and do not have access to the American suppliers of the reagent. I have a Kibler SMR ready to stain and no Aqua Fortis reagent..................stuck. Tried several US supplers with no luck......will not ship to Canada.

I can buy the chemical called Aqua Fortis (NOT reagent) which I understand is a 65% solution of straight nitric acid(nothing in it) from a Toronto supplier. Horizon Chemicals in Vancouver appears to be out of business.

Information on alternative methods/Canadian supplier(s) needed.  Thank you!

.

« Last Edit: August 12, 2022, 01:03:40 AM by canadianml1 »

Offline Scota4570

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Re: Aqua Fortis Reagent
« Reply #1 on: August 12, 2022, 01:22:21 AM »
First of all, do not mess with nitric acid.  It is nasty stuff.  It can blind you if you mix the water and acid in the wrong order.  A steam explosion can happen.  There is no need anyway.

Buy some iron nitrate crystal.  Put a teaspoon of in half a cup of water.  That is it, simple and safe.  Find a Canadian supplier for this:

https://www.carolina.com/images/product/large/862622.jpg

Offline Karl Kunkel

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Re: Aqua Fortis Reagent
« Reply #2 on: August 12, 2022, 03:06:05 AM »
https://www.sciencecompany.com/Ferric-Nitrate-100g-P6384

Add distilled water, or some use alcohol to not raise the grain.

Kunk

Offline canadianml1

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Re: Aqua Fortis Reagent
« Reply #3 on: August 12, 2022, 03:54:21 AM »
Thanks for taking the time to respond. I will stay a mile away from nitric acid!!!

Offline davec2

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Re: Aqua Fortis Reagent
« Reply #4 on: August 12, 2022, 04:46:49 AM »
canadianml1,

If you can get nitric acid, it is extremely easy to handle....as far as putting your eye out you can do that even easier with black powder or a pencil !!!  Most junior high students of my generation (I'm nearly 70) could use it in a chemistry class without hurting themselves.  Also, nitric acid is no more dangerous than Drano (for clearing drains), lye (for making soap and for the glaze on bagels) or muriatic acid that millions and millions of people dump in their jacuzzi or swimming pool and then jump in nearly naked.  And by the way, the muriatic acid in your stomach is strong enough to dissolve a horse shoe.  So, if you can follow extraordinarily simple directions, you can handle nitric acid with complete safety.  However, if you buy it, buy "technical grade"....they sell a "reagent grade" but that means that the acid is especially pure for laboratory testing use.  I use it for gold refining to keep the end product pure but, in this case, you would be dissolving iron in it so you don't need the extra expense of "reagent" grade acid.  Tech grade is a fair amount cheaper.

Nitric can be used diluted to etch steel, copper, brass, and silver and other metals as well as in making the traditional iron nitrate stain.  It will also effectively stain wood to a lovely color even without the iron in it if applied and heat blushed in the same manner.  It has been around since the 1300s and millions of pounds of it are produced world wide every year.  Black powder is FAR more dangerous yet I assume everyone reading this has and uses black powder.  If not, they build or own wall ornaments that look like long rifles....

Sorry for the rant, but I am less and less tolerant of people who are afraid of things they know little or nothing about.  If all the information people knew about gasoline was what is included in the official MSDS, they wouldn't put 25 gallons of it under their a$$ and drive around town.  But they know that however correct the MSDS technically is, they can handle gasoline safely without blowing themselves up or burning down the house......The same is true of the black powder I am assuming we all use safely.

If you want to make the iron nitrate stain the way the non fearful gunsmiths of the past did, PM me and I will send you a copy of the directions from Bill Knight (Mad Monk) and Bill Mende.
"No man will be a sailor who has contrivance enough to get himself into a jail; for being in a ship is being in a jail, with the chance of being drowned... a man in a jail has more room, better food, and commonly better company."
Dr. Samuel Johnson, 1780

Offline canadianml1

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Re: Aqua Fortis Reagent
« Reply #5 on: August 12, 2022, 05:56:43 AM »
Thankyou Davec2 for your comments. If I make the solution using nitric acid and iron filings will it be a better stain result than if I make it with ferric nitrate and water? What are the pros and cons to the two methods?

Offline davec2

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Re: Aqua Fortis Reagent
« Reply #6 on: August 12, 2022, 06:46:29 AM »
canadianml1,

The iron nitrate in solid form is manufactured by dissolving iron in nitric acid and it is then desiccated to the solid crystalline form.  So, if you re-dissolve the ferric nitrate in water, you are right back to the same place as you would be dissolving iron in nitric acid....with a slight exception.  In the fresh nitric acid dissolution there may be some residual unreacted acid present that will not be there if you dissolve the solid in water.  The unreacted acid will also contribute to the color of the wood, along with the absorbed iron, after heat blushing.  Will it make a noticeable difference on any given piece of wood ??  It has for me but that is subject to the internal chemistry of the individual piece of wood.  The simple answer is that the dissolved iron nitrate crystals will certainly darken the wood just like the dissolved iron in nitric acid.  Whether they would come out the same on a single piece of wood is an unknown.  I have tried it all three ways...iron dissolved in nitric acid, iron (ferric) nitrate in water, iron nitrate in ethanol.  All three came out very similar but a tad different on a single piece of wood.  Just my results from a single experiment.

Hope this helps.

"No man will be a sailor who has contrivance enough to get himself into a jail; for being in a ship is being in a jail, with the chance of being drowned... a man in a jail has more room, better food, and commonly better company."
Dr. Samuel Johnson, 1780

Offline smart dog

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Re: Aqua Fortis Reagent
« Reply #7 on: August 12, 2022, 02:08:26 PM »
Hi,
Davec2 is completely correct.  You should get good results with either ferric nitrate crystals dissolved in alcohol or water,  or aqua fortis made using nitric acid and iron.  The results may differ a little.  You should neutralize the stain made from nitric acid after blushing with heat using ammonia, baking soda in water, or lye in water.  Theoretically, you do not need to neutralize the stain made from ferric nitrate crystals.  However, I often still paint the stock with lye mixed in water because it will redden the color of the blushed stain considerably if that is my desire.

dave 
"The main accomplishment of modern economics is to make astrology look good."

Offline goodtime7

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Re: Aqua Fortis Reagent
« Reply #8 on: August 12, 2022, 03:38:15 PM »
Dave,

Any thoughts on a good starting dilution of lye to bring out the red color after heat blushing ferric nitrate?     Thanks.    Bruce

Offline P.W.Berkuta

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Re: Aqua Fortis Reagent
« Reply #9 on: August 12, 2022, 05:57:10 PM »
Can someone please tell me how to make this reagent from iron nitrate crystals (or other approach)? I am in Canada and do not have access to the American suppliers of the reagent. I have a Kibler SMR ready to stain and no Aqua Fortis reagent..................stuck. Tried several US supplers with no luck......will not ship to Canada.

I can buy the chemical called Aqua Fortis (NOT reagent) which I understand is a 65% solution of straight nitric acid(nothing in it) from a Toronto supplier. Horizon Chemicals in Vancouver appears to be out of business.

Information on alternative methods/Canadian supplier(s) needed.  Thank you!

Here are some pictures I took recently of comparisons of AF and iron nitrate crystals dissolved in distilled water from my grocery store on two different maple stock wood. The AF is about 20 years old and the iron nitrate crystals is about one week old. As you can see there is no difference that I can tell. I purchased the iron nitrate crystals online (Amazon) and mixed it with the distilled water to get a 6% solution. Are you saying that you can’t get the iron nitrate crystals or are you saying that you can’t get the AF sent to you? I would not mess with the nitric acid /iron method as the crystals dissolved in distilled water is SO much easier. Send me a PM and I can tell you more ---




« Last Edit: August 12, 2022, 09:24:57 PM by Ky-Flinter »
"The person who says it cannot be done should not interrupt the person who is doing it." - Chinese proverb

Offline Ky-Flinter

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Re: Aqua Fortis Reagent
« Reply #10 on: August 12, 2022, 09:28:44 PM »
P.W.,

Thanks for posting your examples.  To my eye, the stain on the right appears a little darker in both pictures.  Then again, it may just be the angle of the photo, lighting, etc.

Which side is crystals and which side is AF?

Thanks,

Ron
Ron Winfield

Life is too short to hunt with an ugly gun. -Nate McKenzie

Offline P.W.Berkuta

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Re: Aqua Fortis Reagent
« Reply #11 on: August 13, 2022, 08:41:19 AM »
P.W.,

Thanks for posting your examples.  To my eye, the stain on the right appears a little darker in both pictures.  Then again, it may just be the angle of the photo, lighting, etc.

Which side is crystals and which side is AF?

Thanks,

Ron


The right side is the crystal solution on both gunstocks and was made a day after I got the ferric nitrate crystals - very fresh stuff.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2022, 06:38:56 PM by Ky-Flinter »
"The person who says it cannot be done should not interrupt the person who is doing it." - Chinese proverb

Offline canadianml1

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Re: Aqua Fortis Reagent
« Reply #12 on: August 13, 2022, 11:31:02 PM »
I have located a source for ferric nirtrate in Toronto, so I will procede along these lines. Not sure of the proportions to use or if there are any "no-no's''.

Thanks to all who have contributed to this thread!!!!!!!!!

Grant

Offline P.W.Berkuta

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Re: Aqua Fortis Reagent
« Reply #13 on: August 14, 2022, 09:11:50 AM »
I have located a source for ferric nirtrate in Toronto, so I will procede along these lines. Not sure of the proportions to use or if there are any "no-no's''.

Thanks to all who have contributed to this thread!!!!!!!!!

Grant
Most ratios that I have read about are either 5 to 1 or 6 to 1 (water to crystal)
"The person who says it cannot be done should not interrupt the person who is doing it." - Chinese proverb

Offline bob in the woods

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Re: Aqua Fortis Reagent
« Reply #14 on: August 14, 2022, 03:08:55 PM »
I have some of the crystals, and am going to be trying them out soon. Using the nitric acid method, might take a little longer , since you need to allow time for the iron to dissolve. I like wrought iron filings, since modern type steels can have other components which can and will alter the final results.  BTW, for many years I used vinegar to dissolve my iron filings and that also worked well for me. After the application and after heating, I sometimes would use a quick wipe with a hydrogen peroxide wet cloth to bring out a little more red.  It's best if you can experiment on a piece of scrap, or perhaps the barrel channel.

justinp61

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Re: Aqua Fortis Reagent
« Reply #15 on: August 14, 2022, 11:52:19 PM »
I used ferric nitrate crystals on my .40 build and have no complaints, even used it on the hickory ramrod.