DST triggers on a hunting rifle?

[Bob Roller]

My best shooting was also with a single trigger.It was on my Whitworth semi military long range rifle and a finely crafted Brazier 4 screw lock with a very fast mainspring.I have wondered for many years about rifles that were made with set triggers that must be set before the lock could be cocked.
Bob Roller

[flehto]

I guess I consider DSTs as an unwelcome,  unnecessary complication. I think the German hunters started the use of DSTs, but their hunting was from blinds and they had all the time they wanted to shoot. But, to each his own.....Fred

[bama]

Triggers in general are not very well understood by many who build rifles. I built several rifle before I began to understand how all of the working parts of a trigger and lock should work together to get a good trigger pull.

The relationship of the fulcrum points of each trigger is critical to the operation and weight of pull of a trigger. There are other things that also come into play that can cause a heavy trigger pull. A lock, if not properly tuned will cause excessive trigger pull. Many of the locks today have heavy springs and deep full cock notches which the trigger(s) have to overcome to trip the sear. A good polished lock that has had the full cock notch properly fitted will go a long way to making an easier trigger pull weight. I have noticed that if the sear spring is to heavy that this will contribute to a heavy trigger pull. The sear spring needs to be just heavy enough to hold the nose of the sear in the full cock notch and not be over powered by the main spring.
 
Getting a good trigger either set or unset is a balancing act of many parts.

I have set triggers on many of the guns I hunt with but I do not use the set trigger while hunting in most situations. My main deer hunting rifle is a simple pinned trigger that has a pull weight of 3 lbs. A double set trigger if properly set up can have a good 3 lbs front trigger. Getting that 3 lb trigger is easier said than done sometimes but it can be done.

[smylee grouch]

Good point on the weight of the sear spring, Also The position that the sear spring comes in contact with the sear can make a difference. Too far to the rear of the pivot pin on the sear can give it more leverage against the trigger.

[Bob Roller]

Unless the triggers are like some I have seen out if Europe they are the simplest mechanisms in the world.
I make then frequently and have a vague idea about how they work.The European types as I understand them were
made mostly by watch makers in the French speaking section of Switzerland and some of the pins used in these were
like needles.Some used 3 or more springs as well.The one shown in the tutorial made from a railroad spike was more
to the American way of making them .The watchmaker probably had less time in his. . I use a tool room milling machine
and so far,so good.Also a bench grinder is helpful in shaping the inside contour of the rear trigger.
Bob Roller

[Hungry Horse]

  The only way a set trigger of any kind is safe to hunt with  in the western mountains is if you adjust it to reflect about a 5# pull. Most big game hunting in the Western mountains is tracking, and stalking. Steep country, loose gravel, surprises by other animal you weren’t hunting, all make a light set trigger the formula for an accident. Thats just my opinion, hunt the way you want, but I won’t hunt with you.

Hungry Horse

[Austin]

Hmmm, I only hunt with set triggers, black powder, or otherwise. Exception being shotguns. I guess you better beware if you hunt in my neck of the woods, you’ll never know when the next one is going off! Guys this is silly, it’s whatever works for you!

[Pukka Bundook]

For the fun of it, try a Release trigger!

[Bob Roller]

  The only way a set trigger of any kind is safe to hunt with  in the western mountains is if you adjust it to reflect about a 5# pull. Most big game hunting in the Western mountains is tracking, and stalking. Steep country, loose gravel, surprises by other animal you weren’t hunting, all make a light set trigger the formula for an accident. Thats just my opinion, hunt the way you want, but I won’t hunt with you.

Hungry Horse

I am certain none i have made will support a 5lb weight because the front trigger springs are much too light and that spring
controls the tension and the adjustment screw controls the depth of the "bite" the rear trigger gets in the "set" position.
On my triggers I have made a spring that is a hollow rectangle and supports the front trigger and even if one side cracks it
will still allow front trigger function.I had this happen in the shop so I know it works .
The undercutting of a full cock notch is A way to increase the pull in addition to a stronger mainspring but those two things must
be built into into the lock when it's made.
Bob Roller

[alacran]

Most of the folks on this site hunt out of tree stands or ground blinds.  In which case hunting with a set trigger is not likely to cause you problems.
Most of the hunting I do in the west is spot and stalk and tracking. A lot of times you may go an hour or more tracking game. At elevation this can be fatiguing. If it is cold even more so. When you do come up on an animal these factors and the ensuing adrenaline, may cause a lightly set front trigger to go off on you, before you are ready. I don't care how much you practice with it. Unless you are practicing at 7500', with a pack on your back while climbing, practice is worthless. A crisp 3 lb trigger is all that is necessary.

[heinz]

I am fond of double set/double pull triggers.  Set the pull is about 2 lbs, unset the pull is 6 pounds but very short and crisp once a bit of slack is then up.  I never carry it set, and seldom use the set on game, unless the game is squirrels and I am shooting from a rest.

I aways use it on the offhand range.  You have to assume it is always loaded and the trigger is always set.  It is easy to check if it is set when you do not carry the rifle cocked and you should be able to look at the set trigger and tell.  And, as my grandfather said, "if you want to be stupid, you have to be tough". I strongly endorse quality DSDP triggers from Bob Roller or Jim Kibler.

[flehto]

No skin off my knuckles if DSTs are preferred, but why have 2 triggers if one does the job?.....Fred

[shortbarrel]

flehto said it all. bought many old southern rifles in years past and the set triggers did not work on most of them.  one trigger and a fine tuned lock works just fine. to much hammer and sear spring tension can wreck a lock quick. made many styles of locks in my 85 years.

[heinz]

No skin off my knuckles if DSTs are preferred, but why have 2 triggers if one does the job?.....Fred

A set trigger for target work, a front trigger for hunting.  The set trigger works very well from cross sticks or a bench rest.  And you can hunt with your target gun

[rich pierce]

No skin off my knuckles if DSTs are preferred, but why have 2 triggers if one does the job?.....Fred

A set trigger for target work, a front trigger for hunting.  The set trigger works very well from cross sticks or a bench rest.  And you can hunt with your target gun

Exactly. Use the front trigger, unset, when in a hunting situation calling for a quick shot or cold hands and so on. Use the set trigger when you have time and conditions are right. Somehow, out West, where I hear there’s altitude and it gets cold, the Hawken and other rifles with double set triggers were considered premium, not a hindrance, and worry paying more money for. It’s because they can be fired set or un-set.

[Eric Krewson]

I guess I should explain my last neglect discharge with a DST, I had a few back in my TC days when I didn't even know how to adjust a DST, I even swapped the DSTs on my TCs to the single trigger TC sold at the time to replace DSTs.

My last neglect discharge was just after a great friend gave me all his B/P stuff as he was dying from cancer, this was pistols, a rifle and trade gun as well as all his powder, molds, range rods and two large tackle boxes full of accessories. I had never shot a properly made flintlock before, the one he gave me had a Bill Large Barrel and a lightning-fast Roller lock. My friend could no longer hold and shoot his gun but said he had shot a pound of powder out of it every week when he was at his peak of M/L involvement. My friend could do all the trick shots like cutting a lead ball in half on an axe and cutting playing cards as well.

He had his DST set so light the one only had to touch the side of it to set the gun off. I was so overwhelmed by his generosity that I treated his rifle like a new baby, I even carried it to my deer stand in a gun case to keep from scratching it. While he was alive there was always the hope that he might beat the cancer, he took every experimental chemo treatment that came down the pipes and his 6 months life span turned into years. I had hopes of returning his rifle to him and was determined it would go back to him when he was healthy in exactly the same condition that it was when he gave it to me.

I never adjusted the trigger to be "hunting correct" until I had the negligent discharge on a nice lust crazed 8 point buck that I called in to 10 yards on a very cold frosty morning. As I lowered my gun to shoot him, my cold finger apparently touched the side of the trigger and off it went. The buck just stood there as I reloaded but I rammed the ball a little too far into the muzzle before I cut the patch off, I was "fumbling in the heat of the battle". When I rammed the ball home the jag hung on the excess patching and I couldn't pull the ramrod out. I fumbled around for a few minutes while the buck horned a sapling and didn't even notice me. I finally pulled the patch and ball out and loaded the rifle correctly. By this time the buck was casually walking off and only offered me a Texas heart shot so I let him go.

After this incident I softened my stand on the rifle and adjusted the trigger to the point it actually had to be pulled, not just touched. I kept the rifle pristine and babied it through the years just in case a miracle happened and my friend recovered, he made it ten years then the cancer spread to his brain and that was it.

My friends rifle put a pile of deer in my freezer and sparked a gun building interest in me that is still going strong today. I do prefer a single trigger for hunting but it seems like all my rifles from kits (TOW, Kibler) have them in the supplied parts so I put them in, I don't put DST in my scratch builds unless it is a TN rifle. 

       
 

[alacran]

No skin off my knuckles if DSTs are preferred, but why have 2 triggers if one does the job?.....Fred

A set trigger for target work, a front trigger for hunting.  The set trigger works very well from cross sticks or a bench rest.  And you can hunt with your target gun

Exactly. Use the front trigger, unset, when in a hunting situation calling for a quick shot or cold hands and so on. Use the set trigger when you have time and conditions are right. Somehow, out West, where I hear there’s altitude and it gets cold, the Hawken and other rifles with double set triggers were considered premium, not a hindrance, and worry paying more money for. It’s because they can be fired set or un-set.

You are right about that, and my Hawken has a DST , and have taken elk using only the front trigger.  This is a rifle that I built.
 The Hawken triggers lend themselves to this much better than other DSTs .
 I have tried front triggers on long rifles that others have built and the way that they are configured, you would be hard pressed to do anything with them other than uncocking the rifle.

[okawbow]

A good single trigger allows room for cold and gloved fingers when hunting. Plenty room in my .54 rifle.

[Dphariss]

I have hunted with single, single set and double set for years. Can’t say there is a difference. Though I tend to shoot FLs better with set triggers. And in fact I like a 2-3 pound trigger on plain trigger guns for shooting standing.
The cardinal rule is keep your finger out of the TG. I like a good SS on pistols too.
Use what works for you.

[Dphariss]

No skin off my knuckles if DSTs are preferred, but why have 2 triggers if one does the job?.....Fred

A set trigger for target work, a front trigger for hunting.  The set trigger works very well from cross sticks or a bench rest.  And you can hunt with your target gun

I have never had a DST that would give a decent pull unset, under maybe 8 pounds if that is decent, because the front trigger is pined in the plate by necessity and sear engagement is usually pretty far behind the pivot too.  I never use the front trigger only on a DST rifle. SOME SS triggers can have the pin high enough to give good leverage. If you have a rifle that will fire from the front trigger with a decent pull I would think it likely to fail my “mallet” test. Which is striking the barrel and stock in various places to see if the cock/hammer will fall. Most locks you find today have too much sear spring and a malformed fullcock notch that makes for a heavy pull even when the pivot is high.

[Pukka Bundook]

DPhariss
you have me interested now, to see what the pull is unset on my double set "Jaeger" rifle.
Will report back in time!
Its a homemade set with two screws..

[MuskratMike]

All but one (soon to be two) have DST and love them. My primary big bore for big game (elk, bear and hogs) has a single trigger because it was correct for the era, and style of the rifle.

[Darkhorse]

When I started shooting BP rifles back in '75 my rifle had set triggers. The front trigger unset was too heavy for an aimed shot so I got a lot of experience with set triggers.
My 54 deer rifle has a single trigger that pulls just under 3 pounds. I prefer that trigger for hunting but I can shoot targets pretty good with it too.
So when listing my requirements for my 40 turkey rifle I went with set triggers. Because you never can tell when your shot may
be away's off and I might need that fine trigger to make a hit.
After those builds were complete I wasn't satisfied with either trigger. The set trigger was like a bump in the road while I wanted it to feel seamless. I realized early my main problem wasn't the triggers but the lock. So each year after deer season I would polish those locks again while looking it over trying to spot the problem. Then apply a slight correction.
After the third season I had learned enough about the locks to know the problem and fix it. My trigger pull on the front trigger after being set was just under 3 pounds. Curious I checked the front trigger unset, now it was 3.5 pounds. I could hunt with it unset. Best of both worlds.
Set triggers don't have to be a problem or unsafe, it's just that the rules are a little different.
When hunting with set triggers the front trigger should not be set until a moment before the shot. As the rifle is being raised to the shoulder and set against the shoulder my trigger finger sets the front trigger then moves inside the trigger guard making ready for the shot. It's as simple as that.
I shoot my single trigger pretty good but for a fine shot at any distance I shoot better with a set trigger. So on some rifles I don't want a set trigger while on others I do.
But that's just my way of doing it. Approaching it with an open mind is best.