A lesson learned

[billd]

When I install a 1/4"flashhole liner I mark the barrel 1/8" in front of the breech plug face then I add about a 1/16th". This way if I ever have to replace the liner with a bigger one, like a 5/16th, I still have room to drill and tap without hitting the breech plug face. Been doing it this way for years.

Well, I just finished a .25 and took it to the range. What I learned today is......When you dry ball a .25 the centerline of the ball is now behind the flash hole. No matter how much powder you trickle in the flash hole or CO2 shots you try, nothing is going to move a ball if it can't get behind it. 

It's off to the work bench to pull the breech plug. At least it will be easier to clean all apart. 

Live and learn,
Bill

[longcruise]

Seems like a ball puller might be much easier.

[billd]

After spending hours scraping a ramrod to that itty bitty diameter I'm not going to risk it with a ball puller, which I don't even have.

[Dphariss]

Done right its impossible to block the vent.

Dan

[Acer Saccharum]

This is one method I used to breech a rifle, and I gotta tell you, I'll never breech a gun like this again. The smaller diameter is a complete pain in the axe to clean. It shoots very clean, I don't have any problem with fouling, but it's just terrible to clean after the shoot is over.

[billd]

Dan,  Thanks for the suggestion but I'm going to pass on this one, to hard to make sure it's clean.  I like a flat face on the plug.

I only posted this for other builders of mini-calibers to be aware of something I never thought of until it happened.  It's fixed, no big deal, the breech plug came right out. Ed Rayle did a nice job of fitting this one. Well, at least it's fixed till I do it again.

I'm going to make a ball puller this week from 7/32nds steel rod.

Bill

[Dphariss]

Please try to stay civil, everyone.

This is one method I used to breech a rifle, and I gotta tell you, I'll never breech a gun like this again. The smaller diameter is a complete pain in the axe to clean. It shoots very clean, I don't have any problem with fouling, but it's just terrible to clean after the shoot is over.

I have a swivel with this breech and they are not significantly worse than anything else if flushed with a plugged vent. AFTER I figured out they were not at least. Prior to this I was working too hard thinking they needed more scrubbing than they did. I will have the rifle back in service pretty soon and will refresh my memory I could be mis-remembering  .

But like Fords vs Chevys a lot of stuff is a "your mileage may vary" thing and stuff that works for one shooter gives another fits. The variety of information in one of the sites values.
I did some bore scoping of barrels as I cleaned a couple of months ago and it is surprising how much fouling will simply wash away if sloshed, wet wiped and sloshed. Two-three of these cycles 2-3 wet patches and its usually ready to dry and oil.
But its a pain to bore scope wet since even a dry patch or two leaves a lot of water in the bore when looked at with magnification so its hard to really see and dry patching defeats the purpose of seeing what was left after the "slosh".
I have a rifle with the cupped breech (and have had others that were similar) I posted the drawing of and its no worse than a flat breech and I have shot it quite a bit. A friend used to make a lot of rifles with cupped breeches, this is one of his, and there were no complaints. He used to furnish a brush for the end of the rod to get the bottom of any breech clean. Even flat breeches cannot be cleaned with a jag alone and not leave fouling in the "corners" at the bottom unless (maybe) a lot of water is on the patches. The friend thought the cup breech produced better velocity and usually put the vent at the breech face.
If I did not think the breech design was good I would not have posted the drawing.

I hope to prove a couple of barrels in the AM, if the weather allows (proof firing using a fuse for ignition in high winds risks wildfires this time of year I don't need a million dollar lien on my life) and will perhaps shoot another barrel/gun or two and make videos before and after cleaning. Detailing the process and looking for fouling in the corners.
I shoot Swiss powder which does foul less, not having any graphite for one thing.

Dan

[Dphariss]

Dan,  Thanks for the suggestion but I'm going to pass on this one, to hard to make sure it's clean.  I like a flat face on the plug.

I only posted this for other builders of mini-calibers to be aware of something I never thought of until it happened.  It's fixed, no big deal, the breech plug came right out. Ed Rayle did a nice job of fitting this one. Well, at least it's fixed till I do it again.

I'm going to make a ball puller this week from 7/32nds steel rod.

Bill

I had this already typed this when I found the above.

I recommend a 3/16" x 72" 304 stainless rod from MSC.  303/304 machines easier than the other SS alloys and is tougher than mild steel but still pretty fairly soft and is non-magnetic. Places with a lot of iron in the ground can cause magnetic steel/SS rods to "grow" a coating of dirt. BTDT.

Dan

[Benedict]

Done right its impossible to block the vent.

Dan

Dan, this looks like a good way to breech a gun and with a brush it should be easy to clean.  Maybe easier than a flat breech.  But, don't you have to remove the liner to remove the breech?

Bruce

[J.D.]

I have the same opinion of the deep patent breech illustrated in Acer's post. The breech Dan promotes is not nearly as deep, so should be easier to clean, in addition to offering a receptacle for powder, in the event of a dry ball.

IMHO, there are only two types of BP shooters, those who have dry balled, and those who are about too. With that in mind, I kinda like the breech illustrated in Dan's post...not that I have been known to dry ball. 

God bless

Post script;

I just remembered the first flint gun I bought, back in the early 80's. I shot that gun heavily for nearly 15 years, before the frizzen wore completely out.

I removed the breech, for some unremembered reason, to discover that the flat breech had been drilled about a half the diameter of a drill bit, roughly 3/4 of the way across the face of the plug.  Though I had been shooting this gun, heavily, for several years before removing the breech, the cavity created by the half diameter of the drill did not appear to be corroded, or show obvious signs of rust or neglect.

My cleaning regimen consists of sloshing water and a little soap in the bore, swabbing with the first patch, and flushing out the breech under pressure of a tightly patched jag. The process is repeated once or twice, then the bore dried.

I suspect that flushing the breech, under as much pressure as one can generate with a tightly patched jag, has kept that cavity sufficiently clean that it has not corroded over the years.

[tiger955]

Not sure if you tried or not, maybe next time.... remove the vent liner and use a small screwdriver or pick to pry the ball forward enough to get some powder in there or use CO2. I would think it would be possible without damaging threads unless the ball was super tight. Oh well, good you got it.

[Dphariss]

Done right its impossible to block the vent.

Dan

Dan, this looks like a good way to breech a gun and with a brush it should be easy to clean.  Maybe easier than a flat breech.  But, don't you have to remove the liner to remove the breech?

Bruce

Removing the breech should not be required.
But if it is yeah you got to pull the vent too.
I don't pull breeches unless something is REALLY wrong, like replacing the barrel.

Dan

[Nate McKenzie]

IMHO, there are only two types of BP shooters, those who have dry balled, and those who are about too. With that in mind, I kinda like the breech illustrated in Dan's post...not that I have been known to dry ball. 

God Bless

Third type: those who lie about it.

[Randy Hedden]

Not sure if you tried or not, maybe next time.... remove the vent liner and use a small screwdriver or pick to pry the ball forward enough to get some powder in there or use CO2. I would think it would be possible without damaging threads unless the ball was super tight. Oh well, good you got it.

Have you ever done this??  I cannot see how you could get enough leverage to pry a ball up off the breech plug face without marring the vent threads??

Randy Hedden

[billd]

Vent liner doesn't come out.
Bill

[J.D.]

I have pried a ball  far enough forward to get powder behind it, in a bess. The ball was patched, but loose enough to thumb start.

Don't know how it would work in a .25. It might depend on how tight the patch/ball combination is.

God bless