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Author Topic: trade gun lock?  (Read 14500 times)

chuck-ia

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trade gun lock?
« on: October 31, 2009, 02:58:41 AM »
I have a piece of walnut, an oct. to round 20 ga. barrel, a large siler deluxe lock. I am leaning towards building a north west trade gun, I think the walnut blank and oct. to round tapered barrel are correct, but not sure about the lock, could anyone recommend a more appropiate lock? Maybe a chambers col. virg.? I see R.E. Davis has a trade gun lock allso. I have a round faced english lock on a fowler,(chambers) great lock. Any input on the Davis trade gun lock? thanks, chuck
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Kentucky Jeff

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Re: trade gun lock?
« Reply #1 on: October 31, 2009, 04:32:02 AM »
You can't do much better for this than a copy of an original Barnett lock from Matt Avance at North Star West.   

http://www.northstarwest.com/price_list.aspx
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ironwolf

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Re: trade gun lock?
« Reply #2 on: October 31, 2009, 02:18:55 PM »
  Chambers early ketland
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Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: trade gun lock?
« Reply #3 on: October 31, 2009, 05:09:43 PM »
I use the Davis lock on my english trade guns.
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Offline B.Habermehl

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Re: trade gun lock?
« Reply #4 on: October 31, 2009, 08:38:50 PM »
The Chambers Early Va. lock is a good choice. So is the Davis round face English lock. You will not go wrong with either one. I have used both and like both. The Davis lock I had liked a 3/4" flint. The Chambers uses a 7/8" flint. Both are super reliable. If I need to choose between them, The barrel breech and the rest of the project would dictate the lock choice, and I would'nt need to worry about preformance either way. BJH
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Offline Nate McKenzie

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Re: trade gun lock?
« Reply #5 on: October 31, 2009, 09:49:48 PM »
I like the Chambers Round Faced English.  Ive also used the Davis lock with the cast in engraving on and behind the cock. It looks and operates great and is slightly smaller than the Chambers. Both are excellent locks.
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chuck-ia

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Re: trade gun lock?
« Reply #6 on: October 31, 2009, 10:26:38 PM »
Is this what davis calls the early english flintlock that you guys use?  Ihave had good luck with chambers locks, but might give a davis lock a try allso. Mike, is the davis lock you use the trade gun lock or the early english flintlock? thanks for the replys, chuck
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Offline T*O*F

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Re: trade gun lock?
« Reply #7 on: October 31, 2009, 11:17:48 PM »
Quote
Matt Avance at North Star West.   


That would be difficult considering he's at TVM, not Northstar.
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El Lobo

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Re: trade gun lock?
« Reply #8 on: November 01, 2009, 04:49:25 AM »
I believe he may have been thinking of Matt Dennison at NSW.
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Kentucky Jeff

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Re: trade gun lock?
« Reply #9 on: November 01, 2009, 06:21:25 AM »
Quote from: El Lobo on November 01, 2009, 04:49:25 AM
I believe he may have been thinking of Matt Dennison at NSW.

A thousand pardons,  yes,  I meant Matt Dennison.   And again, his copy of the Barnett lock is taken from original castings and the few that I have messed with have been corrrectly assembled and tuned and threw a good spark as fast as a lock that big can throw a spark. 

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Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: trade gun lock?
« Reply #10 on: November 01, 2009, 03:08:04 PM »
Quote from: chuck-ia on October 31, 2009, 10:26:38 PM
Is this what davis calls the early english flintlock that you guys use?  Ihave had good luck with chambers locks, but might give a davis lock a try allso. Mike, is the davis lock you use the trade gun lock or the early english flintlock? thanks for the replys, chuck
It's the one with the cast in engraving.
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chuck-ia

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Re: trade gun lock?
« Reply #11 on: November 01, 2009, 04:00:01 PM »
Thanks Mike, I think it is the early english lock on their web site. I have a trade gun I did from a kit probably 12 years ago, it might be I am not doing something right but am not satisfied with the lock at all. the gun would be perfect for reenacting and such, might even call it a good lock if that is all the gun is used for, but for actual shooting and hunting I don't want to take a chance on buying another just like it. I allso have a fowler with a round faced english lock (col. virg.) chambers lock. very reliable lock, and easy on flints, I would call it a good lock. thanks for the replys. chuck
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Offline Dr. Tim-Boone

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Re: trade gun lock?
« Reply #12 on: November 01, 2009, 04:06:26 PM »
The Wilson Trade Gun lock from Caywood is a winner too. I have both one of them and a roundfaced English from Chambers. Both are great. I actually like the feel of the Wilson quite a lot.
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Offline B.Habermehl

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Re: trade gun lock?
« Reply #13 on: November 02, 2009, 05:25:38 AM »
The Davis lock I refered to was the one with cast in engraving. It would beat a flint down to the jaws. And continue to spark till the top jaw or the hammer screw got in the way.  The gun it was on was acquired in a trade. The fellow who built it was the type who did no more than necessary to sell a gun. I would buy one in a minute if the job was best served with a slightly smaller lock than Chambers locks. The job would be the decideing factor, for me.  BJH
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Kentucky Jeff

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Re: trade gun lock?
« Reply #14 on: November 04, 2009, 01:48:28 AM »
Here's the NSW lock on a NW Trade gun I built/sold a couple month's back:

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chuck-ia

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Re: trade gun lock?
« Reply #15 on: November 04, 2009, 02:16:32 AM »
looks nice, thanks for the picture. chuck
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chuck-ia

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Re: trade gun lock?
« Reply #16 on: November 12, 2009, 02:29:40 AM »
Looking at the Davis lock, I notice there is no frizzen/pan bridle, would this be a weak area compared to the Col. Virg. which has a pan/frizzen bridle? chuck
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Offline B.Habermehl

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Re: trade gun lock?
« Reply #17 on: November 12, 2009, 05:31:49 AM »
It really depends on how many lifetimes you would expect the lock to last. I allways said " My lifetime or yours, after that it does'nt matter too much to you or me... :)
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Offline rich pierce

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Re: trade gun lock?
« Reply #18 on: November 12, 2009, 05:40:51 AM »
Quote from: chuck-ia on November 12, 2009, 02:29:40 AM
Looking at the Davis lock, I notice there is no frizzen/pan bridle, would this be a weak area compared to the Col. Virg. which has a pan/frizzen bridle? chuck

The Chambers lock is stylistically "iffy" or maybe even "fantasy" for an early trade gun because it is a higher-end lock among English locks for export.  In the era these locks represent, "double bridled" locks cost more.  However at the same time, very high end Germanic guns were often being made in Europe w/o frizzen bridles.
The Davis is very similar to common English export locks used on trade guns, fowlers and rifles in the mid-18th century.  You will see locks like the Chambers on higher end fowlers, officers' fusils, and rifles.

You aren't going to wear out or have problems with either of these locks under normal use.
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Offline frogwalking

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Re: trade gun lock?
« Reply #19 on: November 12, 2009, 09:00:23 PM »
Jeff,

Has that hammer jaw screw got both a slot and hole?  Where can I get replacement screws with just the hole, or nothing and I drill the hole? 
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Offline Jim Chambers

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Re: trade gun lock?
« Reply #20 on: November 13, 2009, 05:00:30 AM »
Richpierce,
Before classifying our Colonial Virginia lock as a "fantasy" piece for early trade guns you might want to read or reread Wallace Gusler's article on trade locks in the Sept. 2008 Muzzle Blasts magazine.  There in Photo D is a lock virtually identical to our lock, and it has the pan bridle.  About this photo Wallace says, "The Wilson gun shown in Fig. D appears to date to the 1765-70 period and represents a higher grade trade gun...."  Wallace and Gary Brumfield have done a lot of research on trade guns in the past few years.
Both locks are good.  Naturally, we're a little prejudice toward our lock.  But, don't let the presence or absence of the pan bridle confuse anyone about their use on trade guns.  There were several grades of trade guns and the locks that went on them.                               
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Offline rich pierce

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Re: trade gun lock?
« Reply #21 on: November 13, 2009, 04:41:00 PM »
Good point, Jim.  I was thinking primarily of the common, cheap grade trade guns like the Carolina gun, a gun I have on my mind to build.  It will be based on the Bumford gun Flintriflesmith shows on his site, and also pictured in "Of Sorts for Provincials, pgs 61-64.  For sure, there were different grades of English trade guns- inventories from the period such as orders by Sir William Johnson, etc. show a range of prices.  If it was imported, I guess a gun could be called a "trade gun".  I more commonly call the higher grade imported guns, "fowling guns".  A nice example of the range of guns exported by one maker is the Bumford gun also shown in "Of Sorts... " on pages 49-52, which has a lock similar to your two round-faced offerings.  The next gun pictured in "Of Sorts", a Wilson fowling gun which is much plainer, lacking engraving on the furniture, has a lock more similar to the Davis round-faced lock.

It's great to have choices.
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Offline Dr. Tim-Boone

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Re: trade gun lock?
« Reply #22 on: November 13, 2009, 05:28:16 PM »
Wilson Trade Lock from Caywood, Mike Rice made. I have a Chambers Roundfaced English on another rifle and these locks are very comparable in performance.  This one has no bridle and the pan fence is farther forward so it does not line up with the breech of the barrel. It is a copy of a Wilson Trade Gun lock... molded in engraving. For performance you can't go wrong with either.

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Offline rich pierce

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Re: trade gun lock?
« Reply #23 on: November 13, 2009, 05:43:45 PM »
Nice lock moldings.  Slim!
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Offline Acer Saccharum

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Re: trade gun lock?
« Reply #24 on: November 13, 2009, 06:05:46 PM »
English fusil lock, ca. 1740. Pickfatt made.



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