Overseas shipping

[hawkeye]

Hallo guys,
I was wondering if nowadays it is possible to ship a muzzleloader overseas. Or does it aquire a FFL TO do?
Thank you forwards
Hawkeye from Belgium

[Grischi]

I ordered a Kibler's Southern Mountain Rifle last November. Shipping to Germany by UPS went flawlessly.

Christian

[T*O*F]

Shipping to Germany by UPS went flawlessly.

Not anymore.  They will no longer ship guns or gun parts and will confiscate them.  They will know because it must be declared on the customs form.

[Grischi]

Shipping to Germany by UPS went flawlessly.

Not anymore.  They will no longer ship guns or gun parts and will confiscate them.  They will know because it must be declared on the customs form.

Interesting news to me.
Who will confiscate it? German customs or U.S. authorities?
As I know, flintlocks and single barreled and single shot percussion guns (unfortunately not revolvers) are free to purchase in Germany by adults. You have to declare them, but they will pass the customs, you will only be charged taxes and customs fee.
A completely different story is the import of all kind of cardrige guns

Christian

[T*O*F]

Who will confiscate it?

UPS will confiscate it.  Under their new terms they have stated they will confiscate any packages found to contain guns or gun components.  By filling out a customs declaration, you have admitted what your package contains.

[Grischi]

Who will confiscate it?

UPS will confiscate it.  Under their new terms they have stated they will confiscate any packages found to contain guns or gun components.  By filling out a customs declaration, you have admitted what your package contains.

Thank you.
This is bad news to me. I considered to buy a Woodsrunner kit from Jim Kibler once it is released.
I hope there will be another shipping company willing to ship abroad.

Christian

[hawkeye]

I bought way back in 2008 a Netting flintlock  and was send by USPS. No problem. Me also thinking to aquire a  woodsrunner from Kibler. Here muzzleloaders need a  import license,  because it's a must over here. Why should a dealer as kibler not been able to apply export papers?

[Brokennock]

The UPS firearm policy is not new.
But, if you declare a muzzleloader as an antique reproduction, I believe that is allowed. That is how I shipped a Pedersoli caplock rifle. The guy at the UPS store said they could not ship guns, but a reproduction antique was okay.
I was shipping within the U.S. though.

Might try DHL or Planet Express.

[Rado]

If anybody orders something sucessfully (especially to Germany), please keep us up to date.
Im also dreaming of a Kibler kit but dont know about details regarding the import.
Maybe it would be an option to order it over a gun seller? Increasing the cost even more...

[Jakob]

Did you contact Kibler and ask them? I'd be surprised if they haven't already had experience with shipping abroad.

[davec2]

In addition, I always list what is in the box as "unassembled machined parts".....which is exactly what is in the box.  Even an assembled rifle I list as "assembled machined parts".  I just don't ever refer to the contents of the box as a "gun".  I have no obligation to explain what the parts may eventually become after a lot of additional work. 

Never had a problem

[Rado]

Did you contact Kibler and ask them? I'd be surprised if they haven't already had experience with shipping abroad.

I asked them about the shipping cost.
And it seems like anew policy that UPS doesnt ship these parts. I expected trouble from the customs office but not from the logistics company.

[Dennis Daigger]

Shipping to Germany by UPS went flawlessly.

Not anymore.  They will no longer ship guns or gun parts and will confiscate them.  They will know because it must be declared on the customs form.

Look up UPS firearms shipping policy and then look to the US code for ‘firearm’ definition that is used by UPS and it appears that this in not correct.

It appears that muzzleloaders can be shipped overseas by UPS. UPS uses the US code definition for ‘firearm’ and the US code specifically excludes ‘antique firearm’ from the definition of ‘firearm’ that has restrictions. Original muzzleloaders and replicas are included in the category of ‘antique firearm’.

Dennis

[Rado]

Hopefully. It will take me maybe a year until I have safed the money and many things could change until then.

Kibler´s Longrifles might consider a contract with some European gun seller anyway
I know some Polish blackpowder shooters who are dreaming of a Kibler Longrifle but say US companies dont ship to Poland at all.
Not sure about that. I thought about Poland as an alternative (I have two nationalities)  if the German officials should make too much trouble.
And the Polish black powder community is far bigger than the German,  due to the far less restrictive laws.

[T*O*F]

Look up UPS firearms shipping policy and then look to the US code for ‘firearm’ definition that is used by UPS and it appears that this in not correct.

It appears that muzzleloaders can be shipped overseas by UPS. UPS uses the US code definition for ‘firearm’ and the US code specifically excludes ‘antique firearm’ from the definition of ‘firearm’ that has restrictions. Original muzzleloaders and replicas are included in the category of ‘antique firearm’.

Dennis,
Not of that makes any difference.  They recently upgraded their terms as a result of the "school shootings" saying they will not ship ANY FIREARMS OR FIREARM PARTS, modern or antique; and if found inside the packaging, will confiscate them.  Supposedly, the cancelled the shipping contracts of Brownells and several others.  It's a woke, political statement, but let's not get into a political discussion about it.

[Enfield]

Well.... I although got my Kibler in 2021 via UPS to Germany... And the Woodsrunner is expected in March....or April..
Already orderd and payed. Can not remember if shipping company is already clear?
So I will check that....
Last time I could choose between UPS and US Postal...I chose UPS and it was realy good. Nice tracking App.
We will see... Jim has many experiance in shipping to Europe..they should know and are in lead as a Selling Company.

[Rado]

Thanks.
I ve been to my local ´Waffenamt´ and asked them directly. They told me there will be no problem with an import of a legal muzzleloader from their part.
I wonder why the parcel company should make trouble? This will be the most expensive shipment I have even ordered.

[Enfield]

Well, I will get my Woodsrunner tomorrow. It took six days from Jim to me (Germany) Although custom clearence is already done via UPS.... absolut flawless no issues at all .....

[Rado]

And my Kibler-Colonial is since two weeks in an UPS warehouse in ...Colonia. I wrote them an e mail today, asking why its in the same place for two weeks.

[Rado]

Quick update: I got a phonecall from UPS telling me that "Theres a gun inside!!!"
After the clarification that its a flintlock muzzleloader and that I dont need a permission for it, even in the Socialist Republic of Germany, they told me that I have to translate the entire list of things that are inside the parcel into German, then they will take this list to the customs authority to make sure that everything is legal and then, maybe, they will mercifully deliver my Kibler.
#$!....

[Enfield]

And.... Did they finaly handed it out to you?

[Rado]

Yes. Today they made a delivery attempt but I was at work.
I will have to pay additional 265€ tax or  customs or what ever.

[Rado]

It arrived.
With a damage, obviously caused by someone who dropped it.
Either the custom authorities or UPS staff.


 

Not sure how to repair it. I guess I should stain it with aqua fortis first before I apply glue. Otherwise the glue would seal up the wood from the stain.
I know one can repair pressure damage with moisture and heat. But I shouldnt apply heat to this spot so long as that little wooden spike sticks out. It would start to burn.
So...
1)Aqua fortis.
2)Glue the torn-out wood in place (I want to use bone glue).
3)Apply heat and a little water (or more aqua fortis)to make the dent swell.

Does someone have other ideas?

[Longknife]

To raise dents in wood cover the dent with thick wet rag and apply heat with an iron,,,,LK

[Rado]

This is what my master at my boat building apprenticeship told me aswell.
But I discovered that simple applying of water to the wood and even a lighter, do the trick just as well. You only have to be carefull not to burn anything. Well, in this special case, with this wooden splinter sticking out, the cloth and hot iron might indeed be the needed choice of tools.
Its just so annoying. Even if I manage to repair it, I paid for an intact product and UPS ruined that for me. Well, thats what their insurance is for I guess.