Author Topic: Loads for Kibler .45 SMR  (Read 2400 times)

Offline warren5421

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Loads for Kibler .45 SMR
« on: August 28, 2022, 09:28:21 PM »
In about two weeks I should be getting my finished .45 SMR and need to have some idea where to start with it.  I'm new to muzzle loading rifles and flintlock in particular.  Have used C&B pistols in SASS and BP cartridge rifles.

I also see that leather is used to hold the flint in the hammer do you make or buy them?  What weight of leather and what is the width and length if you make it.

How much powder in the barrel and is the primer measured also.  I was told to use FFFFg for primer powder and FFg or FFFg powder for barrel.  Would Swiss 1 1/2 work as I have about a pound I used some in the .45-70 Government trapdoor.

Kibler said start with:  Ball size .445  Patches would be .012 or .015

Don't know anyone shooting Flintlocks and very dew doing C&B
« Last Edit: August 28, 2022, 10:16:24 PM by warren5421 »

Offline rich pierce

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Re: Loads for Kibler .45 SMR
« Reply #1 on: August 28, 2022, 10:50:17 PM »
In about two weeks I should be getting my finished .45 SMR and need to have some idea where to start with it.  I'm new to muzzle loading rifles and flintlock in particular.  Have used C&B pistols in SASS and BP cartridge rifles.

I also see that leather is used to hold the flint in the hammer do you make or buy them?  What weight of leather and what is the width and length if you make it. Use a strip of scrap leather like an old boot tongue the width of the frizzen. Fold it and cut the folded piece to be as long as the flint lock lower jaw. Cut a notch in the leather at the fold so the rear of the flint can butt up against the top jaw screw.

How much powder in the barrel Iíd start with 50 grains of FFFG. Other granulations will work. and is the primer measured also no just cover the whole bottom of the pan.  I was told to use FFFFg for primer powder and FFg or FFFg powder for barrel.  Would Swiss 1 1/2 work as I have about a pound I used some in the .45-70 Government trapdoor.
we donít even mention non-muzzleloaders here
Kibler said start with:  Ball size .445  Patches would be .012 or .015. 0.015 or thicker would work

Don't know anyone shooting Flintlocks and very dew doing C&B
Andover, Vermont

Offline MuskratMike

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Re: Loads for Kibler .45 SMR
« Reply #2 on: August 28, 2022, 11:41:44 PM »
First of all welcome.
You have asked several very good questions. If you are new to flintlocks I would highly advise you to find a copy of the book: Flintlocks a Practical Guide for their Use and Appreciation by Eric A. Bye. It is currently out of print waiting for the second edition but you probably can find one here if you post an ad in the for sale page or Amazon Books. It will answer many if not all of your questions and I believe it is a must own for all new flintlock shooters.
To answer some of your questions:
Ball size .440 with a .015-.018 patch or .445 with a .012-.015 patch greased or wetted with your choice of lube, (your choice of lube is a personal matter and a ton has been written here on that subject so just go to the search and type in lube). For the record I like 50% Track of the Wolf Mink grease mixed with 50% pure neatsfoot oil, or just try T.O.T.W. mink grease.
Powder, I would use 3F for the main charge to start working up from there and 4F for the pan. If you want to be really traditional just use 3F for both. Start with 40 grains of 3F for the main charge and a 1/2 pan full (maximum) for the prime.
There are many serious flintlock shooters who are going to respond to this post so read through them all and you will get some real answers to your questions, many will contradict my suggestions. There are very few absolutes in flintlock shooting so none are more right or wrong than my answers. You will just have to take your time and find what works best for you and your rifle.
Feel free to message me if you need any additional help.
Finally if there is a traditional B.P. club in your area go to one of their shoots and ask lots of questions, and remember "Real Men Shoot Flint"!
« Last Edit: August 29, 2022, 12:20:57 AM by MuskratMike »
"Muskrat" Mike McGuire
Keep your eyes on the skyline, your flint sharp and powder dry.

Offline Tim Ault

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Re: Loads for Kibler .45 SMR
« Reply #3 on: August 31, 2022, 02:35:12 AM »
In my GM 45 barrels 50 gr of 3F for paper  and 75 gr for stuff with fur  always has been the most accurate loads

Offline Marcruger

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Re: Loads for Kibler .45 SMR
« Reply #4 on: August 31, 2022, 05:47:32 PM »
"In about two weeks I should be getting my finished .45 SMR and need to have some idea where to start with it.  I'm new to muzzle loading rifles and flintlock in particular.  Have used C&B pistols in SASS and BP cartridge rifles."

Unlike modern firearms, muzzleloaders don't have hard and fast "accuracy loads".  You really have to experiment with these toys and each will tell you what it likes. 

"I also see that leather is used to hold the flint in the hammer do you make or buy them?  What weight of leather and what is the width and length if you make it."

The leather is usually something like 2-3 ounce or so.  Not a big deal.  It just holds the flint in the cock.  I make my leather come out to the tip of the flint on top.  It prevents chipping from a rebounding frizzen (if it happens). 

"How much powder in the barrel and is the primer measured also."

I start off using 45 grains for a 45, 50 grains for a 50, etc.   Go up in increments of 5 grains and shoot from the bench.  When you get a small group, there is your load.  Listen for the report to go from "pop" to "CRACK!"   When it cracks you are getting closer to the accuracy load. 

 " I was told to use FFFFg for primer powder"

Do a Google search for Larry Pletcher and priming powders.  He did a series of high-speed tests, and found that there is a difference in performance.  No one can tell it with human senses, but the high speed cameras tell the tale.  It depends on how much of an edge you want in ignition speed.  I use 4f in the pan, as I want all the accuracy I can get.  Some use 2f.  It will go off, but slower, and the muzzle can move in that split second.  NullB Swiss is faster than 4f, but plates my frizzen and pan with graphite.  4f is almost as fast, but doesn't have that negative.  I just fill up the recess in the pan.  Don't fret over the amount.  Some do though.....

" and FFg or FFFg powder for barrel."

The old timers' wisdom was that you used 3f up to .45 for accuracy.  At .50 you could go either 2f or 3f.  Above .50 you used 2f.  Muskets and cannons used coarser.  I'd use 3f if I were you.  I personally wouldn't adjust my sights until I at least worked up loads with 3f. 

 " Would Swiss 1 1/2 work as I have about a pound I used some in the .45-70 Government trapdoor."

1.5 Swiss will certainly go off in a .45.  Give it a try.  It is a bit coarse, but you never know.  1.5 Swiss is close in speed to 2f Goex (thank you Herb).  Of course, 2f is not my top choice for a .45 either. 

"Kibler said start with:  Ball size .445  Patches would be .012 or .015"

I'd try a .445 with a .015 canvas cotton patch or a .440 with a .018 patch.  It will be tight, but therein usually lies the accuracy load.

BTW, don't use a "sled" or "lead sled" for sighting in or load development. These slim stocks need to move in recoil. 

I hope this helps.   God Bless,   Marc

Offline warren5421

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Re: Loads for Kibler .45 SMR
« Reply #5 on: August 31, 2022, 07:57:45 PM »
Thanks for replies I am waiting for Chuck Edwards to finish up my gun.  I have flints ordered from TOTW, 12 English black.  Have FFg and FFFg Goex set out waiting.  Looking for balls and patching now locally

Offline smallpatch

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Re: Loads for Kibler .45 SMR
« Reply #6 on: August 31, 2022, 10:27:40 PM »
First 7 rounds out of a new Rice/Kibler SMR.

In His grip,

Dane

Offline warren5421

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Re: Loads for Kibler .45 SMR
« Reply #7 on: August 31, 2022, 10:53:25 PM »
Hope I can do as good

Offline HighUintas

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Re: Loads for Kibler .45 SMR
« Reply #8 on: September 01, 2022, 12:28:52 AM »
Marcruger left out his testimonial for minute men patches. If you search that on this board I think you'll find the contact info. I don't think there's a website. Apparently, that patching material is A++. Another type of patching frequently mentioned as working very well is Joann's denim. I don't know what weights correspond to what thicknesses but if you search that here, you'll find great info on that topic from Daryl.

Offline smallpatch

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Re: Loads for Kibler .45 SMR
« Reply #9 on: September 01, 2022, 03:56:08 AM »
I use ox-yoke pre cut strips.
In His grip,

Dane

Offline Marcruger

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Re: Loads for Kibler .45 SMR
« Reply #10 on: September 01, 2022, 04:59:25 PM »
That grouping looks excellent Dane.  With that combo, how does it do at 50 yards?  I am betting it does well there too. 

Offline smallpatch

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Re: Loads for Kibler .45 SMR
« Reply #11 on: September 01, 2022, 05:22:57 PM »
Marc,
That was the first 7 shots out of a brand new barrel, no sight adjustment.
I delivered that rifle  right after that, so I donít know much more about it. I just know it was a Rice barrel, and shot real well.
It seems, .005Ē undersize ball, and .020Ē patch, liquid lube, they will shoot well.
In His grip,

Dane

Offline hanshi

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Re: Loads for Kibler .45 SMR
« Reply #12 on: September 02, 2022, 11:32:42 PM »
Smallpatch, just looking at a group like than inspires me.  That rifle is an awesome shooter.
!Jozai Senjo! "always present on the battlefield"
Young guys should hang out with old guys; old guys know stuff.

Online wolf

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Re: Loads for Kibler .45 SMR
« Reply #13 on: September 08, 2022, 08:51:33 PM »
no offence to anyone, but 25 yds, means little. you need to see what it will do at 50,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
I have never "harvested" a critter but I have killed quite a few,,,,,,,,,,,

Offline Marcruger

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Re: Loads for Kibler .45 SMR
« Reply #14 on: September 08, 2022, 11:07:39 PM »
"no offence to anyone, but 25 yds, means little. you need to see what it will do at 50,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,"

Wise words.  A smoothbore will group at 25 yards. 

Offline Cody B

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Re: Loads for Kibler .45 SMR
« Reply #15 on: September 12, 2022, 03:42:07 AM »
In my .45 not a Kibler I shoot a .445 ball with about a .020 cotton duck patch over 65 gr. Of Goex FFF. Itís a very accurate load for that gun. Itís  something youíll have to experiment with until you find what works best, but youíll probably end up with something similar. As far as priming powder FFF works fine for me. Over the years Iíve used 7F 4F and 3F and though Iím sure thereís a difference itís not noticeable to me. As far as leather for the flint Iíve always used deer hide or something similar in weight. On a side note I think youíll be very pleased with your rifle. I have a Kibler SMR built by Chuck and owned a custom rifle he built. He really knows how to give a gun character.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2022, 03:51:37 AM by Cody B »

Offline warren5421

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Re: Loads for Kibler .45 SMR
« Reply #16 on: September 19, 2022, 04:25:54 AM »
Will my rifle took a tour of the Northeast states and ended up a my brothers where I was to be.  Had to go home to Indy so maybe next week.  Pictures it looks great..