Author Topic: Plains Rifle hardware  (Read 3985 times)

Red Owl

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Plains Rifle hardware
« on: November 01, 2009, 08:22:37 PM »
I am building a generic plains rifle incorporating features found on various rifles in Hanson's Plains Rifle book- plus a few others.

I think I know the answer to my question but thought I had better ask and be sure.  The hardware will be brass (I've already done several with iron hardware).

On iron hardware the top of the butt plate is round.  The brass butt plates on Long rifles are often filed into flats.  On a plains rifle with a brass butt plate- what would be the more common treatment for the top of the butt plate- round or with flats?

Same question on the bases of the trigger guard- just a plain flat or slight rounded surface or filed into flats?

Thanks.

Offline stuart cee dub

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Re: Plains Rifle hardware
« Reply #1 on: November 02, 2009, 03:15:22 AM »
Round.    Take a look at any Leman as an example of a late gun using brass hardware.There are other examples by other makers but that is a good rule- of- thumb call on a later plain plains style rifle.It was the style of the period not the material per se that I would use as a guideline.
My two kopecks worth Red Owl.             ,

Offline rsells

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Re: Plains Rifle hardware
« Reply #2 on: November 02, 2009, 07:15:34 AM »
I am in process of reproducing a brass mounted plains rifle shown in "The Great Guns" book and am using a brass version of the late Hawken butt plate that Don Stith sells.  There are several other examples in this book that have brass mounts with the top of the butt plate rounded. 
                                                                                     Roger Sells

J.D.

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Re: Plains Rifle hardware
« Reply #3 on: November 02, 2009, 07:50:29 AM »
Here is one with a faceted return on the buttpiece and faceted finials on the TG...and it is a Hawken.   :P


http://www.bbhc.org/collections/BBHC/CFM_ObjectPage.cfm?museum=CFM&VarObjectKey=32976

God bless

Offline KLMoors

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Re: Plains Rifle hardware
« Reply #4 on: November 02, 2009, 03:15:20 PM »
That's one of my favorite Hawken rifles. Just beware that that set of pictures is of two different rifles. In the shots from the top and bottom that show the butt you can see a patch box that isn't in the other pics. I'm not sure which is right.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2009, 03:17:08 PM by Capt. Fred »

Offline rich pierce

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Re: Plains Rifle hardware
« Reply #5 on: November 02, 2009, 08:51:51 PM »
There are 2 rifles depicted there.  The top and bottom views are of the gun with the pointy-tailed lock and Pennsylvania-styled guard, if I am seeing it correctly.  Would love to see the patchbox.
Andover, Vermont

Offline D. Taylor Sapergia

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Re: Plains Rifle hardware
« Reply #6 on: November 03, 2009, 02:38:45 AM »
Yes, they are two rifles, and if they are both of Hawken manufacture, the bottom one has a lock that started out life as a flintlock.  Whether the lock was converted to percussion before or after the rifle was made, we will never know more than likely.  I like to think that the rifle was originally flint...it helps me rationalize my own needs.  Jake certainly started into his St. Louis business during the end of the flint era.  I cannot imagine him NOT building flint rifles.
Sorry to deviate...I'm a deviant.
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Greg Field

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Re: Plains Rifle hardware
« Reply #7 on: November 03, 2009, 03:40:23 AM »
Note that they both also have hooked patent breeches, which previous information suggests was never (or so rarely that it was almost unheard of) done on fullstock Hawkens.

Thanks for posting the link,

Offline Dphariss

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Re: Plains Rifle hardware
« Reply #8 on: November 03, 2009, 04:06:43 AM »
There are 2 rifles depicted there.  The top and bottom views are of the gun with the pointy-tailed lock and Pennsylvania-styled guard, if I am seeing it correctly.  Would love to see the patchbox.

Its shown in Bairds book.
I suspect one of the rifles pictured in BBHC photos was always percussion.
The other rifle was almost surely a match rifle. In over the chunk matches the flint ignition may have been an advantage.
Below is complete suppostion but a couple of long time serious shooters I know subscribe to it as well.
The percussion system actually had teething problems. I suspect that until well sorted out and the caps were nicely uniform that the flintlock would out shoot them. Less variation on ignition. George points out that while the English shotgun went from flint to percussion almost overnight due to its great advantage in wing shooting. Apparently the conversion of rifles took longer and flint rifles were being made at a time when the flint shotgun was simply dead.
I think it was accuracy related.
This would be a good reason for the 15 pound Hawken "Kentucky" being made as flint. It could then have easily have been converted to percussion at a later date by simply cutting the barrel and installing a patent breech. New guns with flint ignition were common in America into the 1840s it seems.
The 15 pound rifle may have seen a lot of shooting and the vent got too large and the conversion was done. The possibilities are nearly endless.
From all this I vote for the Hawken with the converted lock being made as a flint and then converted, perhaps by Jake or Sam at some later date.

Dan
He who dares not offend cannot be honest. Thomas Paine