Author Topic: New guy with a Kibler kit (Read 6087 times)

Whitewalls · « **on:** September 21, 2022, 03:38:56 AM »

After 30 years of muzzleloader hunting with my trusty .54 TC Hawken I have decided to build a flintlock and use it for my remaining years.
After extensive research I ordered a Kibler Colonial kit .54 rifle. It will be delivered this week but I won't get a chance to start on it until after hunting season. It will make a great Winter project.
I have watched all of the Kibler videos several times and feel very confident about this project. Watching Jim work is much like watching Bob Ross paint as he makes everything look very simple and easy. But I'm sure I will have questions and need help along the way.
My plan is to stain the fancy maple stock with iron nitrate then top with Laurel Mountain Permalyn. Brown the barrel & iron parts, polish the lock and antique finish the brass pieces.
Advice and suggestions are greatly appreciated.

mikeyfirelock · « **Reply #1 on:** September 21, 2022, 04:00:46 AM »

My experience with Permalyn has been very good. You won’t go wrong using it.

smart dog · « **Reply #2 on:** September 21, 2022, 02:20:18 PM »

Hi,
That sounds like a good approach and you will end up with a nice rifle. Don't hesitate to ask questions here.

dave

J Shingler · « **Reply #3 on:** September 21, 2022, 04:48:47 PM »

Very good choice and excellent parts. Take your time and you will have a top rate shooter!

Terry Cheek · « **Reply #4 on:** September 21, 2022, 05:57:43 PM »

Yesterday, September 20, 2022 I finished my SMR. I also used fancy maple stock with iron nitrate then top with Laurel Mountain Permalyn, but I applied two coats of Briwax. I could not have ask for a better finish. With or without the Briwax, it worked out great. I'm sure you will see similar results.

Whitewalls · « **Reply #5 on:** September 22, 2022, 02:52:55 AM »

The kit arrived today. I opened the box and was very impressed with the packaging. Everything looks very nice and high quality.
Much to my surprise the barrel surface is very smooth and finished. I was expecting to have to draw file and remove milling marks.
I'm looking forward to starting on it in a couple of weeks.

mikeyfirelock · « **Reply #6 on:** September 22, 2022, 04:38:16 AM »

I’d look at Laurel Mountain Forge’s stains as well as their finish. I have used them for years. They are easy to apply,and available in a good range of shades,and are colorfast in my experience.

ibogle · « **Reply #7 on:** September 22, 2022, 12:54:20 PM »

Assembly was as simple and straight forward. Very little final fit and finishing was required. Terrible photo was taken when finish was wet. Other photo was the best from "my" load work up (from a rest); two wingers were flinches.
PA 1st late season - no deer, 2nd late season - wet pan full of mud

deer just stood there laughing

Terry Cheek · « **Reply #8 on:** September 22, 2022, 12:58:46 PM »

I look forward to dialing mine in.

Whitewalls · « **Reply #9 on:** October 09, 2022, 06:39:39 AM »

google json checker

Everything is going quite well on this project and much faster than I anticipated. On the stock I applied two coats of Kiblers iron nitrate and topped with three coats of LMF permalyn sealer then two coats of wax.
I have finished the brass pieces and waiting for my antiquing solution to arrive. I've started browning the hardware as practice before I brown the barrel.
I'm saving the most challenging portion for very last which will be disassembling and polishing the lock.
Jim Kibler makes a fine product. I believe just about anyone could assemble one of these kits and make a very nice rifle.

Bigmon · « **Reply #10 on:** October 09, 2022, 04:18:02 PM »

I cannot tell by your profile where you are from? But if you have a few weeks or more until you need that gun for a muzzle loading season, like here in Pa, you could be using it by bthen. That is how great those Kibler kits are.
Also, I am far from expert, for sure. But I have used Permalin and it makes a great finish. But since then I have used the Chambers Oil finish. I find that even easier and I like the final look better. Seems to me to be not quite the "cheap shoe shine" if you get my drift.
Also, the permalin accumulated in my inlets and I had a tough time digging it all out. But that was probably because I was using too much of it??
Good luck with your project.

Dennis Glazener · « **Reply #11 on:** October 09, 2022, 09:26:14 PM »

Quote from: Bigmon on October 09, 2022, 04:18:02 PM

I cannot tell by your profile where you are from? But if you have a few weeks or more until you need that gun for a muzzle loading season, like here in Pa, you could be using it by bthen. That is how great those Kibler kits are.
Also, I am far from expert, for sure. But I have used Permalin and it makes a great finish. But since then I have used the Chambers Oil finish. I find that even easier and I like the final look better. Seems to me to be not quite the "cheap shoe shine" if you get my drift.
Also, the permalin accumulated in my inlets and I had a tough time digging it all out. But that was probably because I was using too much of it??
Good luck with your project.

I agree on use of Chambers Oil Finish. I have used Permalin Thinner under advice of Ed Wenger. I finally got it looking pretty decent but way too much work for me. Ed can really make a great looking finish using Permalim but not me. I much prefer the Chambers oil finish.
Dennis

Terry Cheek · « **Reply #12 on:** October 09, 2022, 09:40:30 PM »

You are doing an excellent job. I'm looking forward to seeing the finished product.

Jim Kibler · « **Reply #13 on:** October 09, 2022, 09:41:47 PM »

This is just my experience... I felt the Chambers finish lacked durability. I didn't feel it would hold up well to serious use. I spoke with another very well respected builder who felt the same. Now, there are other very talented builders who like it. Guess it's just a matter of choice. I think it in some ways comes down to how a person uses a finish. One product may work well for one technique, and vice versa.

Jim

Terry Cheek · « **Reply #14 on:** October 09, 2022, 09:45:54 PM »

I feel the permalyn worked very well on my SMR. My opinion is one of a first-time builder too.

Daryl · « **Reply #15 on:** October 10, 2022, 12:18:04 AM »

Your rifle is quite new, as well, Terry. How it stands up to a lot of use, is the important thing.
I've come to like "Circa 1850 Tung Oil". Before this, I liked True Oil and Lin Speed, but they do not hold up well to wear - hand as well as inclement weather.
Both of my well used True Oil finished rifles need re-finishing.

Whitewalls · « **Reply #16 on:** October 10, 2022, 07:02:24 AM »

Today was very productive. I finished antiquing and installing the brass pieces. I used Birchwood Casey Super Blue and brushed it back with 0000 steel wool.
I finished the ramrod, then installed the trigger and patch box lid.
Next weekend I will work on browning the barrel.
I have a question regarding disassembling the lock. I ordered a mainspring vise. Will this vise be sufficient for removing all of the springs on the lock or do I need more?
Thanks

Whitewalls · « **Reply #17 on:** October 10, 2022, 07:04:15 AM »

taterbug · « **Reply #18 on:** October 10, 2022, 12:13:18 PM »

Well, i hope you're not too proud of it to take it to the woods. if you do take it out, you might not even have to shoot the deer. They should just follow you home willingly!!

Looks great so far.

Terry Cheek · « **Reply #19 on:** October 10, 2022, 04:53:41 PM »

Quote from: Daryl on October 10, 2022, 12:18:04 AM

Your rifle is quite new, as well, Terry. How it stands up to a lot of use, is the important thing.
I've come to like "Circa 1850 Tung Oil". Before this, I liked True Oil and Lin Speed, but they do not hold up well to wear - hand as well as inclement weather.
Both of my well used True Oil finished rifles need re-finishing.

You make a good point Daryl. Time and how I learn to care for the rifle will determine a lot regarding how well the finish holds up. I understand Weather and use may require a refinish at some point. My remarks relate only to the time I have so far with the completed rifle.

Dphariss · « **Reply #20 on:** October 10, 2022, 11:52:05 PM »

Quote from: Whitewalls on September 21, 2022, 03:38:56 AM

After 30 years of muzzleloader hunting with my trusty .54 TC Hawken I have decided to build a flintlock and use it for my remaining years.
After extensive research I ordered a Kibler Colonial kit .54 rifle. It will be delivered this week but I won't get a chance to start on it until after hunting season. It will make a great Winter project.
I have watched all of the Kibler videos several times and feel very confident about this project. Watching Jim work is much like watching Bob Ross paint as he makes everything look very simple and easy. But I'm sure I will have questions and need help along the way.
My plan is to stain the fancy maple stock with iron nitrate then top with Laurel Mountain Permalyn. Brown the barrel & iron parts, polish the lock and antique finish the brass pieces.
Advice and suggestions are greatly appreciated.

Just remember that Permalyn is a synthetic and it will not give the same tone to the wood and it will eventually check according to Mad Monk. It was used to speed production of Bivens centennial rifles. Not because it was a particularly good finish. I might also add I avoid any finish with high levels of petroleum distillate. Bad for your lungs and brain. So its a good idea to check the material data sheet on the finished you might use. I will see if I can did one up again for Permalyn. And some others. Some with oderless solvents don’t even smell like they are heavily laden with the stuff. Some you may consider are 60-80%. Leaving little actual finish. One reason it takes so many coats to show much on the stock.
The best easy way to make a fairly decent varnish as was used back in the day is to mix boiled linseed oil with Birchwood Casey Tru-Oil 50-50. Cut the first coat with about 10-15% REAL turpentine. Best to age the turp in a shallow dish for a day or two. This will allow it to pick up oxygen from the air and it will aid in drying the oils deeper in the wood. I would also point out that if the stain has been adulterated with hydrochloric acid you should not use it. It tends to blacken the wood over time. Its best to find a supplier who has Ferric Nitrate crystals. Mixed with water these produce identical color to stain made with steel/iron and Nitric Acid. Also Jim Chambers sells an oil finish that is supposed to be good. I have been toying with recipes for quite some time now have one I like based on Eric Kettenburg’s oil varnish.

Dphariss · « **Reply #21 on:** October 10, 2022, 11:55:23 PM »

This is Permalyn

Kevin Houlihan · « **Reply #22 on:** October 11, 2022, 12:56:25 AM »

"Just remember that Permalyn is a synthetic .... and it will eventually check according to Mad Monk."

I respect Bill Knight's opinion very much. However, I have 2 guns that I built 25+ years ago and both were finished with Permalyn. These guns have both been out in heat, humidity, cold, wet etc. and neither gun has had the finish check. These guns have seen temps from 10 deg. to 100 deg. and both gun's finishes look great.

Unfortunately, I'm old enough to give hard evidence from 25 years ago...

Thanks,
Kevin

Whitewalls · « **Reply #23 on:** October 11, 2022, 03:01:22 AM »

I think there must be some confusion regarding the permalyn. I didn't pour it on my pancakes.
I know when it comes to hobbies everyone has loyalties to their favorite products.
We are not talking about the 2 part permalyn resin that is commonly used to cover burl clocks and tables.
Laurel Mountain Forge Permalyn sealer is much different. It applies just like oil. Not sticky or messy. Simply apply it with a rag and wait 15 minutes then wipe off any excess. Let it fully dry between coats. The dried product shows no build up and the wood feels like no finish was applied.
I guess time will tell regarding the durability but I have not heard of any issues with this particular product.

Whitewalls · « **Reply #24 on:** October 15, 2022, 03:54:54 AM »

The barrel browning is complete and I am pleased with the results. I used LMF barrel brown and degreaser.
Now I have just one more step to complete the rifle.
Still waiting for my mainspring vise to arrive so I can disassemble and polish the lock.
I'm really looking forward to firing this this thing.

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Author Topic: New guy with a Kibler kit (Read 6087 times)